Do you remember the days when after the boarding door closed, you could move around within your class of service on a flight to Hawaii and take a better vacant seat? It looks like there’s a trend afoot to remove that privilege, and it started with American Airlines and United Airlines.
The issue is not about the premium economy cabin.
We’ve talked about extra legroom seats in economy that you pay extra for, and about a separate premium economy cabin. Since true premium economy has its own cabin, you obviously cannot move there from economy. You can try it, but it will likely result in bad repercussions. It would be like someone trying to take a vacant first-class seat. We’ve seen this happen before, and it didn’t work.
But when it comes to extra legroom and other seats simply deemed more desirable, it gets more complicated. Those seats are mixed about the economy cabin, per the image below. And it isn’t necessary just aisle and window seats that can be deemed superior for a higher fee. It can be those at the front of the plane as well.
For the most part, airlines don’t differentiate between the service provided within the economy cabin, be it for passengers in seats deemed superior or not. But even that isn’t always the case. On Hawaii flights by Alaska Airlines and United Airlines (maybe others, too), certain amenities re offered to those passengers who paid for the better seats in the main economy cabin. Oh boy.
According to a Twitter aviation guru, JonNYC, American has told its flight attendants to enforce keeping passengers in their regular coach seats, rather than allowing them to move to what, in American’s case, is called Main Cabin Extra (MCE) seats.
American said, “Customers may not be familiar with our seat change policy; particularly when it comes to MCE seats. While you may allow a customer to move to an available Main Cabin seat after boarding is complete, they’re not permitted to move into an MCE seat unless they are booked in that class. So, if a customer asks to move to a seat in a different seat classification… politely decline their request.” American added that we are working “to ensure our seat change policy is communicated directly when customers inquire.”
We hadn’t heard of this before but aren’t surprised. It is just somewhat complicated and awkward when the seats aren’t differentiated in any way other than the price and not, for example, the cabin.
Will flight attendants later also sell you the extra legroom seats?
We wouldn’t be surprised to see flight attendants asked to both act as police on the seating and as salespeople to help out the airline’s bottom line. It could be the latest thing on the amenity cart for sale: a better seat.
Let us know your thoughts. Do you think any vacant seat in economy should be up for grabs after the plane is in the air?
The photo above is intentionally stretched to give the humorous appearance of lounge chair seating.
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I pay for my upgraded seat and don’t see why some else should get a free pass just because the seat is available. You get what you pay for.
This is a very good and long-overdue development. Flying, particularly in steerage, is stressful. Seeing others exploit random opportunities when others do not, makes the blood boil. It leads to resentment and increases the chance of unfortunate encounters.
Good. If you didn’t pay for the seat, you shouldn’t be allowed to sit in it.
They took away handicap seats and now call them extra Comphort and charge I have been flying with Hawaiian and Still believe they are the best! At service but when all the changes came down Handicap seats fell by the way side and no one has given me an answer as to why? Hawaiian Air lines has the best flight attendant bar none especially the Older Seasoned one’s hopefully the new ones will follow in by Example much Mahalos Hawaiian
I don’t know about Hawaiian but United doesn’t have Handicap Seats anymore, at least not marked as such. I did find out by accident that United has a certain number of seats, aisle, that if needed are for hanicap. If someone has booked one of the seats that become needed that passenger is relocated elsewhere. I was extremely grateful and surprised by this, very Thankful that I fly United.
I was just in an inter island flight in Hawaii, flying Hawaiian Air. At 6’6″, I was jammed into a small seat. I asked if I could move just behind me to an empty emergencey row seat after the plane was loaded and was told no. Very disappointed, but a 40 minute flight so not the end of the world.0 but why not make your customers as comfortable as possible?
Well, it seems that the president of Hawaiian Airlines continues to devalue the experience, yet this is another example. Sadly, I think I am saying aloha to flying on Hawaiian airlines, it just isn’t the same anymore. The food has become terrible, the exorbitant charges for “extra comfort“ seats is really a joke, when you see how high the premium is, and on and on. I am switching to Southwest and United as those experiences are much more positive, and there’s no more nickel and diming, squeezing every possible nickel out of the passengers that Hawaiian can. So sad. Aloha Hawaiian .
I agree. I was thinking about a Hawaiian Air credit card, but not interested in flying with them again so why do it.
It seems that despite all of the problems that people have identified with Hawaiian Airlines that no one is paying attention in the Main Office. With the potential loss of passengers, both short and long term devotees, typically at least some of the identified issues would be addressed, why won’t Hawaiian? Is Management still of the Belief that They are the Only Real Choice for Flights to Hawaii? It seems that way. If Passengers are not content they Will look and Book elsewhere. Fixing the Problems and keeping customer satisfaction high will be Easier than Finding New Customers. BTW Hawaiian what’s Your Customer Acquisition Cost per person? In the Long Term which Will cost you Less?
If I paid extra for an MCE seat, why should someone who didn’t pay be allowed the privilege for free? Kick the freeloaders out.
It makes perfect sense that anyone moving to a better seat be charged, just like all the other pasengers who had to pay more to get a better seat. We pay around $50 each way to be able to choose where we sit.
When 30% of the comments are from one “person”, often back to back posts, it might be reasonable to ask if the airlines are paying to avoid bad public relations.
If referring to me….. I have time on my hands and attempt to catch up when I am able. This at times leads to back to back to back, you can get the picture, replies and postings. I find many of the postings quite interesting and want to reply to them, sorry if that seems manipulative in any way. I am Retired but working and have No relationship, past or present, with the Airline or Aviation Industries whatsoever. Have a Wonderful Day!
No… simply because it is unfair that one person might grab a better seat before another…and conflict might arise. If there was a lottery process (I know Too Complicated)but at least it would be fair. However, I have no issue if a row is full and someone moves to an empty row for space If that row is the same category… it is the higher cost seat that is the variable.
This is Not a service to the customer. These ‘extra cost’ seats should be marked to prevent any ‘misunderstanding’. They could put those old ‘head doilles’, like the airlines used to have on the seatback way back when, on those ‘premium’ seats, letting the basic economy folks know that the seat is extra cost. Don’t set things up for confrontation with the flight crew. They have enough to deal with.
I agree. Mark the extra-cost and special-purpose seats. Avoid passenger confusion and embarrassment. On a recent HA OGG-LAX flight, after the door closed, I moved directly from my chosen aisle seat near the back of the plane across the aisle to a vacant aisle seat . The flight attendant soon informed me that I was in a section designated as “attendant rest area,” a place where the flight attendants could take a nap mid-flight. The seats were not marked and if they had been, I would not have moved.
That certainly should be marked with something indicating that it is not occupied by anyone other than “Crew” or something to that extent. The Average Person wouldn’t move to those open and marked seats thus problems “Should Not Arise.” Unfortunately there always seems to be that One person that would try to take advantage of it. Your Rationale is certainly worth exploring, it’s just convincing the Airlines to initiate it.
Agree. This is what I’ve seen them doing on my last 6 flights between the mainland and HI. This flight I’m on now we were told not to move/ and they removed the TV’s as well.
I’ve been a loyal Hawaiian Airline customer, paying extra to reach gold status. I’ll be looking at Southwest and other options now though. I wonder if this has anything to do with them being bought by Alaskan…
Regardless, it’s unpleasant and if that’s how they’re going to treat loyal customers then turn about is fair play. So sad. I love(ed) flying Hawaiian.
Somehow they’ve managed until now. Funny this coincides with all the other nickle and dime fees. When SW takes market share, they’ll understand…
Was it ever a privilege to change to a higher priced seat??
In my opinion,the seats are too narrow in basic economy. However,people are conditioned to bargain hunt for Cheap Seats.
So,they will buy a seat even for a dollar less.To compete,on a search engine ,airlines offer cheap uncomfortable seats fearing the passenger will opt for Cheap.Maybe ww need regulation?
Supposedly Congress will be taking several issues up in the Transportation Safety Committee within “Months” which could mean sometime between yesterday and the End of Time. Some of the Issues are Seat Size and Leg Room. For Safety of the individual passenger in any emergency whether the current sizes are enough to allow for passengers to get out of their seats without any reasonable time delays and problems. Hopefully this will bring back more of the leg room and larger seating. We will see. If it does occur I would expect the Airlines to increase ticket prices just for their own inconvenience, never mind the loss of income from the then missing seats. I honestly don’t expect any changes for several years if the decision is made.
I will stick with Southwest for all my flights to Hawaii. Flight Attendants are so much more friendly, bags fly for free (only airline doing that) and of course the cost are cheaper too. No nickel and diming with Southwest, it’s a no brainer.
The Southwest Airlines effect seems to be beating out Hawaiian hands down, is Hawaiian that certain of their continued Dominance in the Hawaiian Niche Market? I don’t see it lasting that much longer with their Customer Responsiveness approaching New Levels of Disappointing Unresponsiveness daily. Time will tell but so far the money is on Southwest to Win, Hawaiian being a “No Show!”
Bottom line the airlines want to keep making enough money and have no regret for the passengers
When is this going to stop ! All it is $$$
What a shame . That’s awful .
They “Collectively” seem to have the Markets Sewn Up and, Short of Private Rentals and Owning Your Own Plane, are the only “Game in Town!” Are We to finance the “Big Splash” where a multi lane tunnel is created from several mainland areas converging together and traveling to each Hawaiian Island? Don’t forget that Scamtrack needs dedicated rail service each way and while we are at it, Freight Service by multiple sets of track! What could possibly go Wrong with something like that? Am I a Visionary or just another Mental Case!
The airline business is not really a moneymaker The airlines often lose millions and millions of dollars.
The passengers are fickle and want a premium experience for bargain basement prices. The airlines are mostly just trying to keep their heads above water and need these extra revenue seats to do do.
I think we should be allowed to change seats within the confines of the class of seat purchased. We are not allowed much discretion when purchasing the initial seat because we cannot see which seats are available at that time.
AA, UA, DL charge extra for window or aisle seats, so you can’t move to them
Evan We just flew round trip on United and there Wasn’t Any Extra Charge for Window or Aisle Seats, I for one cannot understand where your information comes from. I do,however, know that a few Aisle Seats have been designated for disabled individuals if needed, again at No Additional Cost. Even with our Last Round Trip to Hawaii in February 2022 on United there Wasn’t Any Extra Charge for Window or Aisle Seats.
I’m going to stick with Southwest Airlines, where everybody gets a fair shot at all seats, and everyone can check two bags for free. Southwest doesn’t fly to Hawaii? No problem. I’ll cruise to Hawaii!
Actually, Southwest does fly to Hawaii.
Do you think any vacant seat in economy should be up for grabs after the plane is in the air?
No!
No, the better seats are at an extra cost so passengers shouldn’t be able to move to those seats without having to pay the extra cost. If I pay the extra fee and someone gets to move to the same type of seat at no cost, then I should be refunded the price difference or they should have to pay the difference.
The issue is we don’t all pay the same for the same seats. I might pay $100 more per seat upfront, due to when I book or whatever other factors they interject into the process. We the consumer continue to allow the airlines to nickle and dime us while cramming us into smaller seats, less amenities and added fees. Now we’ll be crammed three across while looking at the empty seats across the aisle? This BS has to be stopped. I was back and forth about signing up for the HA mileage card, and now seeing this article, not happening. I have had good flights on HA, but they to are leaving the customer service behind. And flight attendants are dealing with more unruly, angry customers? No way… I can’t imagine why. We pay more, get less.
Adam unfortunately much of what you’ve said is the truth. We all pay different ticket prices for basically the exact seat depending on variable factors in booking. The Airlines “could” decide on a different formula for pricing in order to negate any problems, charge the exact same price for Every Seat in a given section. No more jockeying for Best Price or Seat Assignments as this approach makes first come first served Seat Choice the only way to get what you may want. No more wondering, everyone pays the same for that section!
I paid 69.00 extra for extra comfort on my flight from HNL to San Jose. round trip. I expect the same should apply to anyone who wants more comfort. If they want the seat, they should pay for it just as I did.
Did you pay the same for the seat as the person next to you? You’ll never know, stop perpetuating they’re ability to profit off us. We wonder why this country is the way it is today, no one can stand to see someone get something they didn’t. Sense of entitlement is at an all time high!
Other than at a Fixed Price Venue where do you expect everyone to pay the same? Sometimes waiting and watching the flights and seat pricing can get you a real deal and other times cost you more, it’s a gamble that many take. Sometimes people book at a certain time due to a seat assignment needed, departure and arrival time, but to expect that everyone in a certain class paying the same would lead to many booking at the last possible moment leading to the airlines not knowing the capacity, necessary fuel, etc. It all factors in.
Entitlement has been rising for 2 decades and every year has been worse than the previous. Give thanks for this to the Parents, Teachers, Coaches and everyone else that gave out Trophies for Losing, for Participating. Those who gave Passing Grades for “Trying” despite being Wrong, It has now come back to Haunt Society.
I experienced the same thing on a United flight about 10 years ago. The stewardess called the passenger out over the PA and the poor guy had to walk back to his seat. The plane was maybe half full and a late night flight. I haven’t flown United since.
Mike your harrowing account of “some other person” being forced to walk the “Green Mile of Shame” must have been too much denigrating to observe if you’ve never flown that airline again, were You “That Person?” I, preferring true justice, would prefer pushing the person out, and off, of the plane at 2,000 feet! Punishment Befitting. Unless you were involved why didn’t you Fly?
It’s almost a Guarantee that any unbooked seat will first be offered on the airline site as a reasonably priced upgrade, if not sold as such the airline will look to the Attendants to attempt to sell them possibly at a further, but slight, reduction. It truly would make sense to do it that way yet in an orderly fashion. An Empty Upgradable Seat is Lost Income, sometimes it makes sense to cut the price by a reasonable amount and also gives really good feedback from the passenger.
On Hawaiian Airlines they make a announcement asking passengers to stay in their assigned seats before or shortly after take off.
Bert, that is due to Other Considerations and You should know that! Commenting further to Bert would probably be futile and seen as a poor choice.
What with all of the differentiated classes and fees on the airlines these days, as someone else commented it’s clear that passengers are no longer customers but revenue sources. Then you have all of the fee add-ons once you arrive in Hawaii. It’s demeaning to be nickeled and dimed to death by EVERY service provider – bled out slowly, but by bit, for whatever that provider or this can squeeze out of you. Don’t see going anywhere on any airline anytime soon to be honest.
As in Any Business Model customers are seen for their monetary value. It’s much easier than identifying with them on a purely personal basis. There are the Sellers and the Buyers plain and simple when it’s brought down to the Basics.
Airlines might have to color-code the seats so that passengers know what class their seats are in and not infringe on another class. If the seats are in the same cabin, a passenger might not know the difference. It doesn’t seem fair that the flight attendants have to police it though.
Marking the seats in a certain way is redundant, seats are clearly numbered and lettered, however to avoid any confusion it would be a good idea and additionally a possible selling point for the curious. Unfortunately Attendants are the first line of contact with the passengers and it falls upon them to enforce the rules, who else is available to do so? Without cooperation from the passengers anything could happen.
Of course they were not sold why can they not be used. I had good enonomy . American cancelled my flight. Now only crap economy seats left. If after we take off better seats are available why should I be stuck in the crap seats
Assigned Seating is important for many reasons, one of which is the ability to identify by name who is in which seat. If there’s any seating available other than your own it’s not there to be grabbed for convenience sake. Inquiring if you can be reassigned is proper, if it’s an Upgrade plan on paying more. This isn’t a School Bus where jumping seats can be the normal. Unrulyness has its penalties, the least which is being totally embarrassed.
Just like airlines tring to make more money.
That is ridiculous!
It’s how they stay in business. There’s always an Alternative to flying if that’s someone’s preference, it just takes much longer. Traveling by air has its Benefits but there Are Rules to be followed and with upgrades a Price to be Paid for the Comfort Factor.
American’s “Main Cabin Extra” does come with the perk of free alcoholic drinks in addition to the significantly increased leg room on board…
Same with Alaska’s Premium seating.
It’s not as simple as just airline policy- I’ve had people move to an open seat next to me so another part of their group can stretch out. Now I’m squeezed and 2 of their group have an open seat between them! Hardly seems kosher?
Passengers should be able to move to other seats once the doors are closed, but only within the class they paid for. I’ve seen passengers on wide body international flights try to move from regular economy to upgraded seats with more legroom, and I’ve even seen some try to move into vacant business class seats. In every case I can remember, the flight attendants made them return to their assigned seats or section. I wouldn’t be opposed to flight attendants “selling” upgraded seats if they are available, but that may cause some consternation within the cabins because there may be more passengers willing to pay the extra money to move up than the number of seats available. How would they determine who to sell them to?
Exactly – which is why you should stay in the seat you bought.
First come first served, they begin at the front and work their way to the back or vica versa.
I’ve been fortunate twice when flying to Hawaii where due to bad weather the back of the plane was practically empty. Both times the Attendant said that we, all 7 of us on 1 flight, could move around and take whatever seats we wanted as long as it was in the back and after the doors closed. I flipped up the arm rests both times and Slept my way to Hawaii and wasn’t the only one! Sometimes people do get a break.
Yes, empty seats should be up for ‘grabs’, but in an orderly fashion. I’ve seen passengers slinking around to jockey for ‘better’ seats. Done in an orderly, creative and fair manner, it could develop in a novel experience.
And with the Approval of the Attendants, they have to make the name changes on the seating chart. In case of a Disaster it allows Investigators to help identify the remains. Don’t forget that 😉
No the Extra Comfort Seats on Hawaiian Airlines comes at a great extra cost so passengers shouldn’t be able to move to those seats without having to pay the extra cost. However, since the only real benefit that you get with the Hawaiian Airlines Extra Comfort Seats is the greater legroom many of those seats remain empty unless the flight is very full since many passengers don’t need the extra legroom or don’t watn to pay for the extra legroom. Perhaps Hawaiian Airlines should provide the Extra Comfort Seats with better and more food to justifiying the extra cost so that those seats would not be so vacant and inviting to the regular coach passengers.
I paid 69.00 extra for extra comfort on my flight from HNL to San Jose. round trip. I expect the same should apply to anyone who wants more comfort. If they want the seat, they should pay for it just as I did.
If they can find a way to charge for using the bathroom, they will. We are not passengers. We are not customers. We are revenue sources. And we must maximize our revenue sources.
With all due respect, by definition we clearly *are* passengers and we definitely *are* customers and of course (since we pay a fare) we *are* revenue sources to the companies that fly us safely and comfortably through the sky and across vast oceans at nearly supersonic speeds to destinations of our choosing. It’s called free market capitalism. It’s what our western economy, and by extension, our society is based upon. Not sure why this is such a surprise. Not sure why some of us feel like the airlines owe us a service (extra leg room, free pretzels and beer) for which we have not paid. Baffling.
Everyone believes that the cost of tickets includes certain “extras” after decades of having them included. Albeit ever decreasing amounts with little choice most if not all airlines provide something. For the Expensive 1st class it is More, working to the tail section it lessens. One day there will be none for some, most!
Last time we flew from the Mainland to Kauai (and back) on Hawaiian, we were told you could not move to the more legroom seats if you hadn’t paid for them. We always pay for extra legroom seats as my Wife has back problems.
Smart Policy Decision.
We fly to Maui in extra comfort on Hawaiian, paying 100 dollars or more per seatin each direction. I would hope and frankly expect the flight attendant to protect my investment. If someone wants to sit in extra comfort, let them pay for it like I did!
I worked as a FLT. Attendant for 23 years -YES travel has changed. With baggage fees, economy seats, upgrade seats $$$ expensive, crazy pax’s, maybe offer the seats at reduced cost if the seats are open. One more job the flight crew has to police. The Airlines are making a lot of money with all the fees
And remember … ancillary fees for upgrades, legroom, drinks, etc. are taxed at a much lower rate than tickets … increasing profits in more ways than one. These fees didn’t exist in the not so distant past.
This article should have highlighted Hawaiian Airlines stance in regards to Main Cabin seating. I have noticed that announcements are made about the premium and standard economy seating; and signage are placed in the empty premium economy seating rows. However, what really surprises me are the somewhat abrupt confrontations that arises between the ‘comfort seeking passengers’ and the inflight crew when someone ‘on the sly’ tries to sit in one of these premium seating. The whole situation is distressing to being a witness of.
Distressing? I would be happy that I am not being charged for the floor show, live entertainment could cost a lot depending on the Airline. It rarely surprises me as to the Stupidity that some people will go to and the Arguing that ensues despite their being in the Wrong. These people should be subdued while departing the airplane, arrested and at least heavily fined.
Everyone knows that Phrase “Pay to Play,” it applies. Anyone who believes that they are “Entitled” should wear signage stating so. “My Mommy, Daddy, Teachers and Coaches Told Me I’m Entitled!” That would be a Wonderful Help to the Attendants. It also wouldn’t get you that Seat. Pay Up or Sit Down in Your Seat and Shut Up. Maybe having a couple of Bouncers on Every Flight would be a Great Idea and they would be paid by Increasing Ticket Prices!
Aloha guys. Yes, I think that if you would like to upgrade your seat and they are available, then by all means, have at it. It would make money for the airline. Get away from the seat-kickers and crying infants/young children. That is my pet peeves lately. Even earplugs don’t drown out the noise. I feel sorry for the infant/children. 5-6 hrs is a Long time for them and not fair to the rest of the passengers to have to listen to them. They enforce park ride admissions for height+age, so why not flying also. No one under 5. Just my personal opinion.
Perhaps a way purchase an open uograde seat thru app? If it can show available seats and price. Flight attendants have enough to do so they shouldn’t have to deal with more
Agreed, Attendants have plenty to do without adding more to their burden. The Pilots aren’t about to do it,having additional gate time and a company salesperson or representative aboard to upsell seating and then leave the plane isn’t happening therefore the Attendants are the Logical Choice. That being said, I hope that the Attendants doing this are Paid Extra, OMG what am I saying, that’s Airline Blasphemy!
I totally agree with you. I’ve invested in a good set of noise canceling headphones and they’re the best invention ever. I don’t understand why parents want to take their little one on a trip they won’t remember in the first place.
While I share your frustration with small children that cry nonstop, etc, I hardly think it right to not allow children under 5 to be able to travel with their family, whether it is to get to the bedside of a dying family member, attend a funeral, get medical
Treatment, go on vacation, or whatever. To disallow kids from
Flying is unrealistic & unreasonable. As a mom of 3, I so think it is important for parents to properly plan to make a flight as happy & comfortable as possible for both the little ones, and those passengers sharing the same flight.
I endured a transcontinental flight where a small dog screamed for hours on end. I love dogs but was very frustrated. Should pets be banned too?
It’s Amazing what some people will say about traveling with younger children on a flight. I often find myself wondering if the commenter was left behind from Birth until the time they were forced out, sure seems like it. Unwanted child syndrome (UCS) does plenty of strange things to sufferers. Don’t feel badly for these people, they chose their whining ways. Take Your kids with you on vacation but please don’t forget the Binky’s.
Your comment on “unwanted child syndrome” was judgemental and way out of line. We are all entitled to our opinion without being insulted. By the way, I love children. It’s the parents that are inconsiderate. Aloha Rob+Jeff. I would think you would delete derogatory posts like Ernie S. Mahalo
I’m sorry that you didn’t find it humorous as that was part of my intent. Mea Culpa!
You should invest in some noise canceling headphones. They are bliss on long haul flights! Worth every penny. Bose makes great ones!
Makes sense to me. Why would the airline give away a more desirable and expensive service for free?
The airlines are greedy. Customers can solve the problem easily. Just everyone agree not to fly on those airlines (to anywhere) for 3 months. Let the loss of income straighten out the decision makers at the airlines.
Why don’t the airlines handle these unsold upgraded Economy seats the way they often do with available business or 1st class, & offer upgrades at checkin and/or at the airport? It needs to be taken care of Before boarding to avoid many potential issues IMO.
That would be wonderful if they would do it before boarding at the gate. Most of the time there are plenty of Airline Employees waiting around for up to 20 minutes prior to the beginning of boarding. That would be the Perfect Opportunity to offer the Upgrades.
Short Term that may work for a while but Airlines will be doing worse. Long Term Strategies are needed so as to switch tactics when necessary, the Airlines will certainly have options for any contingency. Remember that not long ago Disney was boycotted, nowhere long enough to be effective, and it began to make a change briefly. Investors became aware and angry with Management’s decisions. Without steadfastness it failed. Shameful.
I can picture that now, air traffic basically halted for 3 month’s time. Are there Exclusions like Business Travelers, Sick and Dying Relatives, Medical Exemptions? Before long everyone will be flying. If a 3 month Boycott actually took place does anyone believe that they would encounter Friendly Skies afterwards? Does Anyone believe that after 3 months the Ticket Prices would stay the same or would the not so happy airline executives double and triple the cost and take away anything that was free? A tiny bottle of water for $7. Boycotting may sound good but what would be the End Result?