A comment this week piqued our interest in a subject we haven’t had to deal with personally, at least not yet. BOH friend Pam said, “I really appreciate your putting a spotlight on bad behavior on a plane. I remember many discussions about passenger etiquette, now it’s fighting. How far we’ve fallen. Question; is it acceptable for a passenger to intervene in a situation where another passenger is acting out? I’m asking because that nonsense doesn’t sit well with me and I’d seriously like to help subdue an irate idiot on a flight. It’d totally make my day!
Zero tolerance here.”
This came from a discussion about the article, “Fit-To-Be-Tied: Hawaii Flights Ultimate Air-Rage Summer,” which was spawned by last week’s airdropped threat to a Southwest Hawaii flight. That incident led to an in-flight diversion and was unfortunately just one in a countless string of unruly passenger incidents that have been occurring during this hottest of summers, both in terms of temperature and temperament.
Passengers became enraged on ten recent overcrowded Hawaii flights.
Pointing fingers, some even think unruly passenger behavior is the fault of the airlines. That was the ACLU’s point of view as they related it to airlines not stepping forward to “make flying a less miserable experience.” Really? Passengers want the cheapest airfares, but not the overcrowding and other issues that come with them. The government (Congress) thinks the answer lies in some new iteration of a no-fly list.
The range of recent Hawaii unruly passenger incidents is astounding.
It runs the gamut from a passenger choking out a flight attendant and ending up zip-tied, then jailed, to passengers unhappy about their seats being abusive to flight attendants, and even to one passenger flying from New York to Honolulu who attempted to breach the cockpit. Yikes! IATA said that such incidents were up nearly 50% in 2022 compared with 2021, and this year could be as bad, or heaven forbid, even worse.
Do flight attendants help or not?
The flight attendant union said that they are “aviation’s first responders.” Others among you have noted in comments that flight attendants at times have their own role in further agitating passengers. All we know is that being a flight attendant would no longer be what we’d consider an easy job. Once glamorous (think United Airlines and Pan Am 50 years ago), now it is a tough position to be in. One FA on last week’s Southwest Hawaii diversion even said “Get me the ‘F’ off this plane.”
“Social and political issues” appear on Hawaii flights.
“Social and political issues always show up on our planes,” said Sara Nelson, president of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA union, “The pandemic exposed massive inequality and suffering… we forgot how to be together ― in other cases, the stress piled high and spilled out erratically…”
There’s more stress than ever on Hawaii flights. Have you noticed?
There’s clearly more pressure, stress, anxiety, and uncertainty these days when flying. And the planes are packed to capacity. We feel it all every time we get on a flight to or from Hawaii. Given these conditions, it’s not surprising that some people seem to crack at 30,000 feet.
Can you help during a problematic in-flight situation?
Back to Pam’s question. If a situation is truly out of control, there’s likely little or nothing that you can do to help. And should you try, you could put yourself or others in harm’s way.
It’s the flight attendants who are the specialists trained in these situations, and it is best left to them. The head of their union said that passengers should let them know what is happening, but not get involved themselves. “Unless you or someone near you is in imminent danger, please wait for flight attendant instructions. Some well-meaning passengers can unintentionally escalate a situation.” Be a good witness and ready helper. ”
Flight attendants want federal government intervention in unruly flight behavior.
The union wants “Clear consequences [that] are critical to deter bad behavior,” including “swift investigation, prosecution, and enforcement of fines and/or jail time.” They are also calling for a centralized no-fly list managed by the TSA, with consequences such that “worst offenders should also lose the freedom of flight. If passengers act badly on one airline, they shouldn’t be allowed to simply buy a ticket on another airline.”
While we have yet to witness anything too extreme ourselves, we are keenly aware that these types of incidents are on the rise. Have you had to experience this kind of behavior on flights?
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I don’t know what the answer is to this. It seems since the pandemic there has been a marked increase in coarseness, and entitlement be it in politics, bad driving, air rage, settling disagreements with threats of, if not actual, violence. Fines and bans would affect the offenders, but until they are hit with these penalties they, and any future violators, probably don’t see the rules as applicable to them. Until it is stressed to everyone that the rules apply the everyone this is likely to continue.
I fly to Hawaii at least once a year and the unruly passengers I have seen on my flights were drunk from the stewards serving them too much liquor. When I complained to delta about it, delta refused to even respond to my complaint, and when i complained to delta that they hadn’t responded to my complaint, delta again didn’t respond. Delta doesn’t want to admit they have a problem. On one occasion I had an elderly couple in the exit row in front of me and the woman needed a cane to walk and the stewards served them handfuls of bottles of liquor continuously thru the flight from lax to ogg. So the stewardess not only knew the couple shouldn’t be sitting in the exit row, she knew she shouldn’t be serving them liquor until they were plastered.
Why doesn’t the airlines quit serving alcohol. I’ll bet most of the problems were alcohol related. On a flight I was just on with Alaska Airlines the premium passengers were given two 1.7 ounce bottles of liquor and they could buy another. Forest Gump said it best “Stupid is what stupid does”. Stop the booze and it will eliminate most of the problems, I would be willing to bet on that.
A few months ago you had an article about this topic. I think that people who cause any kind of trouble, should be put, immediately upon landing, on a 5 year no-fly list. Plus any fines and other penalties. Play that warning along with how put your seatbelt on.
Update: a friend of mine was on a plane with a disruptive passenger that caused delays. He filed suit against that person. Without going into details, (his request), they settled out of court for a hefty sum. I just wish some money hungry lawyer would file a class action suit against those people. One such suit might make everyone behave like normal people.
You guys have a great day!
That’s a good idea!
Joe B,
Good stuff. But, if one class action would make a difference, why are class action lawsuits filed just about every day.
Punishment, especially punishment of others, won’t do anything, IMO.
I think the 5-year no fly list is great. A permanent ban is unrealistic for some, but not most offenders. But, if a 5-year no fly penalty is on the table and strongly announced – maybe, just maybe.
First thing, if Flight attendants seem rude or angry, it’s not because they hate being a Flight attendant! Its because the industry and public have placed them in a category compared to the restaurant and bar industry. The Flight crew are on these flights for the safety of the aircraft and its passengers. They are not on board to appeal to its passengers thirst, hunger, and comfort. So, to think that the Flight crew are bouncers and coolers on a flight is very ignorant. Final thing, I believe that if the situation looks “in control” then passengers should not interfere the situation. But if passengers just sit there and “mind their own business”, the situation can escalate and possibly have a 9/11 case to where the aircraft is taken over because passengers were manipulated in believing that the flight crew train for these situations. Passengers should all believe that this is dangerous, flying, already! We all don’t need this craziness to cause us more danger.
Hi guys—-Here I am sitting by the pool at the Marriott Kaua’i Beach Club/Sonesta Hotel enjoining the positive ambiance and weather you enjoy when you are at home.
Thanks for raising awareness of inappropriate and inconsiderate passenger behavior. You would think that those of us who have flown many air miles might have “seen it all” in terms of badly behaving passengers. It not necessarily so——I recall only one such incident during my nearly 4-million Delta miles. The only consistency is all those miles were on Delta and it’s commuter carriers, usually Skywest. Delta caters to business travelers who are focused on their work and on having non-eventful flights. However, my suggestion is to add the troublemakers to the no-fly list much the same as we have the “trusted traveler” designation for Global Entry cardholders.
Thanks for your always-pertinent blog!
Sincerely,
Jim E.
Hi Jim.
Thanks for your insight and so many other comments. Two BOH editors are on Oahu this week and one is on Kauai. Enjoy your time on the garden island.
Aloha.
I am mystified by why the airlines are not suing unruly passengers for reimbursement of their cost to divert. I think the prospect of owing an airline several thousand dollars could factor into being a deterrent to the behavior.
I believe the long lines at the airport and the crowded planes with uncomfortable seats and no leg room are a problem to start with.
Prices also.
Hi John.
Thanks. True that. And what part isn’t stressful?
Aloha.
We fly to Hawaii once a year for 3-4 wks. from Vancouver, Canada. We have thankfully never experienced an unruly passenger.
We personally have had 2 minor incidents.
1 was in 2022, where a female passenger boarded the plane in a mask, but once we were in the air, she obnoxiously took it off. The flight attendant politely told her that it was a DOT law that people wear a mask on the plane, otherwise the airline can be fined. The woman initially put her mask back on, but then intermittently took it off throughout the flight when the flight attendants were otherwise occupied.
The other incident in 2020, which is becoming a folklore in our family was on a last scheduled flight home from Honolulu on Westjet. My 80 year old extremely obese seat mate was trying to find her way to Vancouver from a 4 month cruise, which got cancelled in Australia. She luckily happened to find a window seat next to me & my husband. It’s a long story, but the Cole’s notes are that she basically occupied my whole seat, putting her hand on my thigh, throughout the trip…and using my tray everytime they brought a snack or a drink. Then when she ordered a meal, she couldn’t access her purse for her credit card. Her purse was on the floor between her legs. I tried to haul it out, bearing the harsh words of a flight attendant, because the seat belt sign was on. When I finally retrieved her purse, she dropped her credit card between the window & her seat. When I took my flashlight out & engaged the kind man behind me, while his partner went to the washroom , I tried to help her pay for her meal, about 1 hr later. The flight attendant just said ” Forget it”!!!
The main story is that we were all in this together at the start of COVID. We were thankful & fortunate to get home safely. My husband & I had some pretty humorous moments. When we laughed, she laughed. Sometimes one has to see the funny side of life despite our inconveniences. We were blessed to have been able to help this woman. I don’t care how much we paid for the trip. 6-7 hours of inconvenience is not going to to make a difference in your life… but the fact that you helped someone does.
Are Federal Air Marshalls assigned to such long flights? Their law enforcement presence would certainly help control any incident and even act as a deterrent.
I’ve been flying commercially since 1966, including 20+ flights each to Hawaii and Europe have never even heard so much as a raised voice.
Hi Rod.
Consider yourself lucky. We’ve witnessed our share of problems on flights. But in each case so far the flight attendants were able to bring difficult situations under control. Just like their union said.
Aloha.
Hi BOH,
I guess I have been lucky. We’re flying over on Sep 14 and hoping for another uneventful flight to Oahu.
I should say I was on a flight from KC to LA and there was a small fire in the kitchen (long time ago, memory is old and faulty). Emergency landing.
One other, I think there was a bomb scare. We landed in Vegas where all luggage was removed and everyone had to ID our own luggage. False alarm.
So, no unruly passengers, but those 2 incidents came to mind.
Aloha
Flight attendants (or if a Marshall on board) should have access to a Tazer when serious offenders misbehave and endanger the passengers and the airplane.
Of course, packing passengers in like sardines does not help.
Over the years traveling back and forth to Oahu, I’ve noticed a different atmosphere on these flights. Visitors traveling to Hawaii are in a festive mood and generally upbeat. So, these diversions are not really surprising, considering what we’ve been through the past three years. I’m very intolerant esp when it comes to passengers acting like morons. I would be inclined to interfere during a situation, but, I’d better not, unless asked by the crew.
Maleko P,
In my mind, I’d also be inclined to interfere. I sometimes think I’m still in the Marines. But, I’m 78, and that work is probably best left to the crew and those a little younger than I.
Hope you take care of #1 yourself.
A flight on United from Maui a few years back infuriated many. Bad weather was a contributor but when a plane load of passengers sits on the tarmac because the plane is too heavy for conditions and demand ‘X’ number of passengers disembark it’s just wrong .
Then when no one budges, we sat longer and announcements got more and more hostile until individual’s names were called out on the PA system telling them to get off the plane!
… and when freight takes prescience over human paying customers who have planned and bought their flight tickets months in advance who also have to get back on time for jobs, etc., there is something seriously wrong with the business model and customer service.
Every flight I have been on this year and last, the mood of others I encounter is quite upbeat. In fact, after so many years of living in Hawaii I find it a bit refreshing to see people overtly excited about coming to Hawaii. Reminds me what a special place Hawaii still is. I fly mostly on Hawaiian so perhaps there’s a little extra Aloha floating around but the reality is for every crazy passenger story that makes the news, there are tens of thousands of passengers that have not made the news.
Hi John.
Thanks. True that there’s not good than bad. Let’s get together for lunch again and share some more stories. We know you’ve seen a lot of things!
Aloha.
Question. What ever happened to the “flight marshal” program? Does it still exist? It seems like they would be the first responder in these situations. I know that they were first hired to deal with terrorism, but it seems like now, our own citizens are some of the most dangerous.
Hi Kathy.
Our understanding is that it is still in existence, but that it is not meant to deal with problems like those.
Aloha.
Right you are…if sky marshals responded to an unruly passenger they would expose their identity. It would be simple for a potential terrorist to plant an unruly passenger to identify who the sky marshals are and blow their cover.
I guess I’ve been lucky. I’ve flown from and to Maui a few times in the last couple of years, and have not witnessed one incident on the Hawaii routes. I did see a fist fight between a customer and a flight attendant at the Atlanta airport.
I agree with BOH about the possible causes of bad behavior on flights, but I can’t help but have the feeling that there is…something else. The massive discontent in the US lately can’t be explained away solely by the pandemic. Something else is amiss.
Hi Pat.
First thanks for 300 comments! We tend to think you’re right about that. Something fundamentally has changed. We see it in stores and parking lots, but on planes it takes on a whole different meaning. Most of the things we’ve personally witnessed seem to have been related to intoxication.
Aloha.
I think you are both right. We have become a country that more and more accepts social media fed name calling, tribalism, crazy conspiracy theories and blatant dishonesty as acceptable. Toss in too much alcohol with someone that hates people they don’t agree with? spells trouble…………still cling to my perspective that most people are not like that but the crazies are sure getting a lot of attention!
Personally, I agree that anyone losing it to that point, at 30,000 ft should either be restrained by whomever is able and willing, provided they dont jeopardize the safety of the plane crew or passengers.. OR throw the person out of the plane!! They wont try that again.. (I know, I know)
At minimum they should suffer very severe repercussions.. some minimum jail time AND extraordinary fines, costs if the plane has to be diverted or delayed AND being barred from any airline on a no fly list for a minimum of (5) years..
Exactly. Mandatory prison time, stiff penalties and ban on all national flights for no less than 5 years. It would quickly bring people to their senses. On the other hand, Hawaii seems to be suffering from the same problems like the Ninth island which are the result of low air fares and cheap accommodations. Vegas did that back in 2008-2009 to speed up recovery after the market crash and look where it is today. Reducing room rates at some of the best hotels, brought the demographics that turned many nice places to trash. If you lower the rates in this kind of industry, you will inevitably invite the worst visitors you can imagine – those that don’t spend and tip, that have no respect and manners and you will bitterly regret pandering to them. After COVID we’ve all seen the kind of visitors you’ve never seen on the islands before and the kind you don’t want to have here. And those are the ones responsible for 100% of in-flight problems.
During the Covid restrictive years. Koloa Llandings created a Kamá āina rate as did Timbers.
As a result, Koloa Landings was thoroughly trashed, with the “guests” taking bedding, cookware, dishware, and glasses and leaving huge piles of trash in the units. Timbers also suffered the same, but not to the Koloa Landings extent.
You are absolutely correct in your assessment of what happens when you lower rates to attract business. You will in the long run end up paying for these rates.