58 thoughts on “Recent Kauai Hiker Air-Rescues Spark Restitution Law. Who Should Pay?”
Andy M
Well I can tell you who should Not pay…the taxpayers. Anyone using these trailers should be required to take out insurance and it should be a hefty price. But what about all the illegal hikes where people are trespassing? They should face steep fines and bear all of the expenses of their rescue. They won’t ever do it again.
Whether it’s visitors, tourists, or even residents of Hawaii there shouldn’t be any “Free Rides.” Making Insurance Policies available that would cover the costs, minus a deductible, for these events would be the Best Way to recover the costs associated with this. Anyone who chooses to Not to purchase the Insurance should be forced to Pay Out of Pocket. Anyone who is Trespassing or on trails that are Closed should be assessed Costly Fines and Court Costs on top of their rescue which wouldn’t be covered fully due to Illegalities. Hopefully this will address the problem of the Costs and possibly curtail use of Closed Areas!
Whinging over Over priced Helecopter flights seems abit cheap…I lived in South Kona and Puna districts during the early eighties.Lotsa lotsa lotsa helecopters all the time who paid for that?
If what you were seeing were sightseeing tours, then the people in the helicopters paid for it. It is just like taking a tour van to Hana, except it’s a helicopter. I’ve heard that these rescues can cost thousands of dollars, because there are a lot more people involved than a licensed sightseeing pilot. It is also typically a lot more dangerous to fly close enough to where they can pick up someone who can’t get to a flat, clear area. There’s EMS, specialized equipment, an ambulance and a fire truck have to go to where they land the injured person, even if they decline a ride to the hospital. Expensive? You betcha. Overpriced? No.
This is a difficult situation to resolve. Who gets billed, just tourists who don’t pay any actual ‘taxes’ in HI except for the length of their trip? How much do you change? If they are trespassing or ignoring “Keep Out” or “Dangerous! Do not enter!” type signs, they should pay the whole bill. Hawaiians pay as residents for these EMS services. Haoles in particulare in effect do not. If the situation involved persons who should know better (like the 50 year old woman on a strenuous hike, stupid is as does), send them the bill. If they are on a managable trail and have an accident, send the EMS and skip the bill. What we’re trying to say, if they are culpable for their situation, they should pay. Period.
Haoles as a term seems to be quite derogatory and racist, is it necessary to use it? A discussion for another day with the PC. Most of what you have said should be included in any New Law, but Everyone should pay, or have specific insurance to pay, for the services. Helicopters fly inthe air, not on Air. If someone chooses not to call for help due to Illegalities, Stupidity or a Mix of Both it is Their Fault. After hours, or less, of intense pain etc. they will probably call. Again, Their Problem and Decision!
Dear BOH, I experienced first hand ,Thousands and thousands of Helicopter hours, and Millons spent to fund green Harvest.. Mission Acomplished! Let’s allow room for perspective. If I accidently twisted my ankle,I don,t want to perish ofexposure, dehydration ,etc. Do you? Who pays? the tax payers!How’s about a little prioritization To Basic Human and planetary needs! Peace on Earth! Mahalo
I have hiked the K. trail, it is difficult for the healthiest. I Have lived on the islands and was very active and have seen foolish people in all areanas. Especially my Sister, who always had to get to the edge to photograph with her new camera. This was many years ago. No one injured by it, but a huge feud. I have seen many many people rescued at the blow hole on west Maui. One guy was sucked in and spit out in the ocean…..dead… I just shake my head at these non thinkers. So yes, charge them the fees. The word will spread on social media. It will save the lives of rescue team and of course the idiots.
Hikers should take out an insurance policy for their own safety, maybe a Hawaii based company would sell one for entire trip $25. For each week, small price to pay
They should pay. I am tired of paying for visitors taking risks on our dime. This is a statewide issue, and is repetitive one. In a recent article hear listing places the state was discouraging visiting, which included places like the off-limits Haiku Stairs, several people defiantly added they now added more places to visit to their lists. This sort of entitled attitude with us paying when they are injured does nothing to promote locals being welcoming to tourists.
As I remember from Months ago the People that were being sought-after to be Tourists were the Wealthy and the Younger higher wage earners, you’ve invited them so deal with it. Many of the desired Tourists are those who Thrill Seek, Illegalities are of little consequence if you don’t get caught. Money cures most things in Hawaii, why not push the envelope. You’ve received what you have desired, deal with it now!
I don’t recall inviting anyone to visit HI, tourist or friend. So of course you are writing to the wrong person.
Because HI sought tourists it should pay for them doing stupid things that then require them to be rescued, residents should pay? I think not.
The “average” rescue costs 5K, for 2 hours, and that is cost of running the helicopter according to the local news. Firefighter’s union supports the bill. Six other states already charge for such rescues.
Perhaps you should avoid doing things that are dangerous when visiting HI, and you won’t need to worry. Or just not visit if you insist on acting in a way that puts rescuers at risk.
Unfortunately, your logic is flawed, Ernie. This isn’t a dichotomous variable issue. Hawaiians want tourists who are wealthy, young, good-looking, meek, respectful of the Aina, law-abiding, quiet and generally un-entitled. Surely that is not too much to ask.
Arigato!
People should be ready for the trail and not go without being prepared, or better yet just like the surf rule… when in doubt Dont Go Out should be applied. Its the ego saying “i can do what i want when i want and i will get a helicopter ride if i get into trouble.”
Save that mindset for mainland.
Aloha! As with our rescues here, which I feel should be charged/fined, & the Hawai’i bill should be extended to a least a fine for every rescue. I know for sure, here, if you’re in an accident you’re charged for helicopter rides to a hospital. We have a lot of hikers who decide to hike when foul weather is happening or expected, then need to be rescued. I think the real problem, anywhere, is people think they’re better hikers than they are, & they don’t prepare well.
The cost of rescue is paid for by taxes, of which visitors heavily contribute through the taxes paid by resort/hotel properties, as well as other tourist taxes. All pwrsons found to be violating laws should be financially responsible, but an injury while legally recreating should not incur additional fees. And if Air rescue assets bill insurance they cannot bill one group one charge and another for others, thats in Federal Medicare billing laws.
I’ve visited many of the Hawaiian islands but have visited Kauai every year for the past 20 years. Many of the trails are not easy to hike. I totally agree that visitors receiving any kind of assistance, especially air evacuations, should be charged for the cost whether they receive medical treatment or not. These visitors should know the risks and bear the consequences if they require assistance.
Sometimes things just happen, even when people are conducting themselves properly. To charge them for rescues when conducting themselves within proper paramiters would be unfair. Do we charge motorists for police and fire services when they are involved in a traffic collision? When their boat hits a submerged rock and sinks? And, while Hawaiians pay most of the taxes, if they come to CA and have an accident on a mountain trail, we will summon assistance, including a helo, and not give them a bill for $10,000 to pay for everything. As a former EMS person, this is the practice.
As Oregonians that appreciate our beautiful hiking opportunities here as well as the many hikes afforded us on visits to the Hawaiian islands, we are in favor of any legislation that will help protect Hawaii from ignorant hikers that don’t want to follow the rules. Anyone that ignores posted signs of warning ought to realize they won’t “be taken care of” at the expense of anyone else. If one ignores the rules, they will be responsible for their rescue and care. If they won’t take responsibility for their own misguided actions, why should officials be worried about their care after making poor choices?
Using your logic… no one injured while driving intoxicated should be taken to an ER or treated for their injuries if they cannot prove beforehand that they have excellent health insurance coverage. Thankfully, most civilized societies (including your home state) don’t adopt such barbaric policies.
Hawaii State residents should pay. The tourists are the lifeblood of our economy. We need to treat them well, and some of that requires us to subsidize their air evaluation expenses. It’s what responsible and good hosts should do. It is the Aloha Spirit.
That mindset can get tricky because then.. rules don’t apply to anyone, and that does not make sense.
Catering to one group of people because of money prowess is never a good thing..
Just know you are not on your turf, and do as the Romans do, and respect the environment and show a tiny bit of common sense and Grace.
Thanks
Health insurance pays for ambulance & ER.so the injured should be billed. Air rescue should be billed to the one in need. Maybe they will be more careful. Mahalo
Well I can tell you who should Not pay…the taxpayers. Anyone using these trailers should be required to take out insurance and it should be a hefty price. But what about all the illegal hikes where people are trespassing? They should face steep fines and bear all of the expenses of their rescue. They won’t ever do it again.
Whether it’s visitors, tourists, or even residents of Hawaii there shouldn’t be any “Free Rides.” Making Insurance Policies available that would cover the costs, minus a deductible, for these events would be the Best Way to recover the costs associated with this. Anyone who chooses to Not to purchase the Insurance should be forced to Pay Out of Pocket. Anyone who is Trespassing or on trails that are Closed should be assessed Costly Fines and Court Costs on top of their rescue which wouldn’t be covered fully due to Illegalities. Hopefully this will address the problem of the Costs and possibly curtail use of Closed Areas!
Dear BOH Thank you for posting my comment, I love the service you provide!
Whinging over Over priced Helecopter flights seems abit cheap…I lived in South Kona and Puna districts during the early eighties.Lotsa lotsa lotsa helecopters all the time who paid for that?
If what you were seeing were sightseeing tours, then the people in the helicopters paid for it. It is just like taking a tour van to Hana, except it’s a helicopter. I’ve heard that these rescues can cost thousands of dollars, because there are a lot more people involved than a licensed sightseeing pilot. It is also typically a lot more dangerous to fly close enough to where they can pick up someone who can’t get to a flat, clear area. There’s EMS, specialized equipment, an ambulance and a fire truck have to go to where they land the injured person, even if they decline a ride to the hospital. Expensive? You betcha. Overpriced? No.
This is a difficult situation to resolve. Who gets billed, just tourists who don’t pay any actual ‘taxes’ in HI except for the length of their trip? How much do you change? If they are trespassing or ignoring “Keep Out” or “Dangerous! Do not enter!” type signs, they should pay the whole bill. Hawaiians pay as residents for these EMS services. Haoles in particulare in effect do not. If the situation involved persons who should know better (like the 50 year old woman on a strenuous hike, stupid is as does), send them the bill. If they are on a managable trail and have an accident, send the EMS and skip the bill. What we’re trying to say, if they are culpable for their situation, they should pay. Period.
Haoles as a term seems to be quite derogatory and racist, is it necessary to use it? A discussion for another day with the PC. Most of what you have said should be included in any New Law, but Everyone should pay, or have specific insurance to pay, for the services. Helicopters fly inthe air, not on Air. If someone chooses not to call for help due to Illegalities, Stupidity or a Mix of Both it is Their Fault. After hours, or less, of intense pain etc. they will probably call. Again, Their Problem and Decision!
Dear BOH, I experienced first hand ,Thousands and thousands of Helicopter hours, and Millons spent to fund green Harvest.. Mission Acomplished! Let’s allow room for perspective. If I accidently twisted my ankle,I don,t want to perish ofexposure, dehydration ,etc. Do you? Who pays? the tax payers!How’s about a little prioritization To Basic Human and planetary needs! Peace on Earth! Mahalo
I have hiked the K. trail, it is difficult for the healthiest. I Have lived on the islands and was very active and have seen foolish people in all areanas. Especially my Sister, who always had to get to the edge to photograph with her new camera. This was many years ago. No one injured by it, but a huge feud. I have seen many many people rescued at the blow hole on west Maui. One guy was sucked in and spit out in the ocean…..dead… I just shake my head at these non thinkers. So yes, charge them the fees. The word will spread on social media. It will save the lives of rescue team and of course the idiots.
Hikers should take out an insurance policy for their own safety, maybe a Hawaii based company would sell one for entire trip $25. For each week, small price to pay
They should pay. I am tired of paying for visitors taking risks on our dime. This is a statewide issue, and is repetitive one. In a recent article hear listing places the state was discouraging visiting, which included places like the off-limits Haiku Stairs, several people defiantly added they now added more places to visit to their lists. This sort of entitled attitude with us paying when they are injured does nothing to promote locals being welcoming to tourists.
As I remember from Months ago the People that were being sought-after to be Tourists were the Wealthy and the Younger higher wage earners, you’ve invited them so deal with it. Many of the desired Tourists are those who Thrill Seek, Illegalities are of little consequence if you don’t get caught. Money cures most things in Hawaii, why not push the envelope. You’ve received what you have desired, deal with it now!
I don’t recall inviting anyone to visit HI, tourist or friend. So of course you are writing to the wrong person.
Because HI sought tourists it should pay for them doing stupid things that then require them to be rescued, residents should pay? I think not.
The “average” rescue costs 5K, for 2 hours, and that is cost of running the helicopter according to the local news. Firefighter’s union supports the bill. Six other states already charge for such rescues.
Perhaps you should avoid doing things that are dangerous when visiting HI, and you won’t need to worry. Or just not visit if you insist on acting in a way that puts rescuers at risk.
Unfortunately, your logic is flawed, Ernie. This isn’t a dichotomous variable issue. Hawaiians want tourists who are wealthy, young, good-looking, meek, respectful of the Aina, law-abiding, quiet and generally un-entitled. Surely that is not too much to ask.
Arigato!
Who should pay? They took the risk, they are responsible for knowing trail conditions, if they are somewhere illegally(disobey signs)
They should pay.
People should be ready for the trail and not go without being prepared, or better yet just like the surf rule… when in doubt Dont Go Out should be applied. Its the ego saying “i can do what i want when i want and i will get a helicopter ride if i get into trouble.”
Save that mindset for mainland.
Thankyou
Charge an insurance fee for anyone who goes on the trail
I hike the Kalalau trail to the end. If I needed rescue I am prepared to pay for the service and care
Aloha! As with our rescues here, which I feel should be charged/fined, & the Hawai’i bill should be extended to a least a fine for every rescue. I know for sure, here, if you’re in an accident you’re charged for helicopter rides to a hospital. We have a lot of hikers who decide to hike when foul weather is happening or expected, then need to be rescued. I think the real problem, anywhere, is people think they’re better hikers than they are, & they don’t prepare well.
The cost of rescue is paid for by taxes, of which visitors heavily contribute through the taxes paid by resort/hotel properties, as well as other tourist taxes. All pwrsons found to be violating laws should be financially responsible, but an injury while legally recreating should not incur additional fees. And if Air rescue assets bill insurance they cannot bill one group one charge and another for others, thats in Federal Medicare billing laws.
I’ve visited many of the Hawaiian islands but have visited Kauai every year for the past 20 years. Many of the trails are not easy to hike. I totally agree that visitors receiving any kind of assistance, especially air evacuations, should be charged for the cost whether they receive medical treatment or not. These visitors should know the risks and bear the consequences if they require assistance.
Sometimes things just happen, even when people are conducting themselves properly. To charge them for rescues when conducting themselves within proper paramiters would be unfair. Do we charge motorists for police and fire services when they are involved in a traffic collision? When their boat hits a submerged rock and sinks? And, while Hawaiians pay most of the taxes, if they come to CA and have an accident on a mountain trail, we will summon assistance, including a helo, and not give them a bill for $10,000 to pay for everything. As a former EMS person, this is the practice.
Who ever is rescued should foot the bill, They will all be shocked when the see it’s around 40 grand or more.
As Oregonians that appreciate our beautiful hiking opportunities here as well as the many hikes afforded us on visits to the Hawaiian islands, we are in favor of any legislation that will help protect Hawaii from ignorant hikers that don’t want to follow the rules. Anyone that ignores posted signs of warning ought to realize they won’t “be taken care of” at the expense of anyone else. If one ignores the rules, they will be responsible for their rescue and care. If they won’t take responsibility for their own misguided actions, why should officials be worried about their care after making poor choices?
Using your logic… no one injured while driving intoxicated should be taken to an ER or treated for their injuries if they cannot prove beforehand that they have excellent health insurance coverage. Thankfully, most civilized societies (including your home state) don’t adopt such barbaric policies.
Hawaii State residents should pay. The tourists are the lifeblood of our economy. We need to treat them well, and some of that requires us to subsidize their air evaluation expenses. It’s what responsible and good hosts should do. It is the Aloha Spirit.
That mindset can get tricky because then.. rules don’t apply to anyone, and that does not make sense.
Catering to one group of people because of money prowess is never a good thing..
Just know you are not on your turf, and do as the Romans do, and respect the environment and show a tiny bit of common sense and Grace.
Thanks
Health insurance pays for ambulance & ER.so the injured should be billed. Air rescue should be billed to the one in need. Maybe they will be more careful. Mahalo