Airline seats in economy are never comfortable anymore and are made worse when flights to Hawaii range from 5 to 10 hours. Looking at it from two directions, do you remember that the industry once even envisioned “standing seats” replacing the economy seating we know today? Read on for that and what’s up at the FAA to help passengers.
FAA takes aim at airline economy seats.
The FAA is interested in becoming involved in minimum standards for economy seats, which might benefit Hawaii-bound visitors. This won’t be popular with airlines, which optimize profits by making us as uncomfortable as possible, among other measures. Not to point the blame entirely in the direction of the airlines, this paradigm emanated from their desire to fulfill the public’s goal of obtaining the cheapest possible ticket price for flights to Hawaii.
As the airlines have achieved more and more squeeze in economy, our misery has increased. Add to that a narrow single-aisle cabin, with every seat sold, and well, for Beat of Hawaii editor Jeff, at least, it is a guaranteed formula for airline claustrophobia.
FAA looks to create standards for minimum seat dimensions and pitch.
Currently, the FAA is seeking comments on a proposed rule related to economy airline seats. The airlines have managed to shrink seat pitch (distance between seats) in the past ten years from, on average, 35″ to about 31″. Some economy airlines have taken it even further, going as low as 28 inches! But thankfully, they aren’t flying to Hawaii. And that comes at the same time, as, according to the FAA, the average American is now significantly heavier and wider than ever before.
The current economy seat pitch listed for airlines flying to Hawaii is as follows:
- Alaska Airlines 32″
- American Airlines 31-32″
- Delta Airlines 32″
- Hawaiian Airlines 31″
- Southwest Airlines 32″
- United Airlines 31″
The focus of the FAA is primarily on safety for airline passengers, such as in an evacuation. But given the extraordinary number of comments, we can’t help but wonder if this is opening pandora’s box to better airline consumer changes ahead.
The airlines, via their trade group, however, indicate that this isn’t an issue of evacuation safety at all.
As mentioned before, Beat of Hawaii editor Rob is 6’4″ tall. It is nearly impossible for him to manage most economy seats unless he upgrades to extra legroom. The struggles of tall passengers raise interesting questions. For example, airlines are not required to offer special accommodations since being tall is not a disability. And if you did that, wider passengers who couldn’t fit into airline seats would also need to be accommodated.
FAA wants your input on airline seats.
If you’d like to add your comments to the more than 10k already posted, the FAA is welcoming them through October. One of the most recent comments from Emily said: “The current seats are too small for Americans of average size, myself included. A seat that’s too small, especially one where the armrests significantly encroach on personal space, makes it very difficult and uncomfortable to get into/out of the seat. I worry that this will significantly impact my ability to quickly evacuate the aircraft in case of emergency. Please increase the seat size so that the minimum seat dimensions are able to safely accommodate more Americans. The average American hip measurement is around 40 in circumference, which is simply too large to fit into the common 17-inch-wide seat. Please consider a minimum width of 20 or 21 inches.”
Do you remember these “cattle class” airline seats?
Several years ago, airlines were thrilled when Aviointeriors unveiled what could have become the first standing seats on flights to Hawaii. These were shown at an aircraft expo in 2019. First conceived in 2010, these have gone through multiple and thankfully unsuccessful interactions.
The manufacturer took exception to the idea this would create a lower than economy “cattle class” for passengers. Their take was merely a way for airlines to offer more options, including a new ultra-basic (or standing) economy.
The benefit of these standing seats is that they would have just 23″ of seat pitch, which affords the airlines room for many more seats.
So what became of standing airline seats?
It seems clear that passengers were uniformly horrified by the idea of virtually standing for an entire flight. In addition, airline manufacturers Boeing and Airbus have specified that the minimum seat pitch should not be less than 28″. So it would take a significant change to achieve acceptance of a seat with a 23″ pitch.
Moreover, the idea was so unpopular that when checking the manufacturer’s website today, we no longer find any reference to the once highly touted super-economy product stool.
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larger seats are needed for all. it is not just tall or large people. once installed airlines can charge customers whatever is needed to make a reasonable profit. customers will plan ahead once they know the prices. too many tourists now coming to Hawaii. time to thin the herd (literally).
The seats are uncomfortable due to the very hard materials used. The size is ridiculous, I’m 5’and 102 lbs. Constantly pushed, tapped on, and no way to exit unless I walk on the people to exit. We are in a death trap that will look like a can of crushed tomatoes, if a true crisis occurs. We are sardines in a tin can, a small fire would cause anoxia. A large fire we burn to death. It’s not good, think about it.
Perhaps specific planes could have more extra comfort seats with configuration for tall and large folks who are willing to pay for the comfort. I fit anywhere but we always are willing to pay to upgrade to extra comfort for my 6’3″ husband. The problem can be finding availability. We’re pretty good at eventuality finding a flight but it’s far in advance. We’ve been fortunate to never have had to take a last-minute emergency flight.
Also had wondering if some of flights should remove two seats and replace with one larger seat for wide folks. Again, the cost would have to be more but the option be available. ~just my musings when flying.
Personally, I hate the flight to Hawaii. That 5 hours seems so much longer than any other flight. That being said, I’d prefer the airlines just do more flights than putting more people on a plane. I’m short so the pitch isn’t horrible for me. My husband is 6’1″ and struggles to be comfortable. Wider seats would be a plus as well. Even a few inches would make a difference.
I fly to and from Maui three times a year. Always on Alaska. Always on a Tuesday. Always 150.00 or less. If I want more room I can pay more money and upgrade. I have no complaints, Alaska Airlines is great every time.
Leave the government out of it.
Aloha
A few days ago I read in the Google news(New York Times)that Boeing’s Max has been in the last year the most trouble free aircraft in their history. (99.7%) That is not surprising given all the time they have invested in that aircraft. However, the max surely wins the award for flying Cattle Car! I think I can touch the heads of 6 people around me while seated. The max 9 is even uglier and I surely hate to think what the 10 would be like.
Aloha
Hi Roy.
Thanks for almost 300 comments to date! Whether Boeing or Airbus, the latest narrowbody aircraft all seem to suffer from the same comfort issues.
Aloha.
It is not Boeing (or Airbus for that matter) that decide on the seating configurations/pitch, etc., of their planes, it is each airline company that chooses what they want in the cabins, including and especially seating. Boeing just makes the planes and outfits them to the buyers’ specifications. So one cannot blame Boeing or Airbus for what the airline companies choose for seating.
Yes, I am aware of that. United flies the Max 9 and Southwest the Max 8. They are both very packed aircraft. Alaska is in the process of getting rid of the 800ER and
900ER and going to the Max 9.
Aloha.
I recently read an article of a college student who is developing aircraft seats that are semi-stacked above each other. Basically the seat in front of you is elevated higher than yours allowing that persons butt to be higher and further back. Imagine the person in from of you sitting much higher and their butt is slightly over your lap. Looks insane but he has a bunch
Of airlines evaluating it. Hope this helps idea doesn’t get off the ground.
Ummmm…………and what happens if that person ahead of you feels it is OK to release some gas??? No thanks.
I fly “main cabin” on Delta. I have my own name for these seats – airline torture chambers. I always book an aisle seat so that I can stretch into the aisle when my legs get cramped which happens often on Hawaii flights. Anything that can be done to make these seats more comfortable would be much appreciated. One shouldn’t have to pay extra for a little comfort. Airline tickets are already too expensive.
Agreed. It’s greed.
I’m an average 6′ 1″ 64-year-old. In a recent flight from Honolulu on Southwest, I found the economy seats in the 737 MAX to be very comfortable. For a 2917 mi trip, the time really flew by! No one in our row got up even once.
We found the real problem with Southwest’s seats is that they are as hard as a bus bench. But to each his own.
We’ll probably continue to fly locally with them but no more six hour flights for us.
We do not need any more cheap airline seats to Hawaii. The tourists who try to get the cheapest vacation possible cause most of the tourism problems. They rent U-Haul trucks to camp in leaving locals with no source for moving rentals. These are the same tourists who use private property as public restrooms, etc.
We noticed a steep increase in the number of tourists behaving badly when Southwest started flying here with the cheapest fares.
Hawaii should be catering to tourists who don’t mind paying more for quality, and this is another completely backward response to a critical problem of too many tourists. How tone deaf are these people?
You are correct. These buck fifty passengers are not what Hawaii needs. We need quality tourism. These low ballers are making their own activities and side stepping the reputable (safe) activities. Any coincidence of how many drownings and lost hikers are straining local first responder ranks.
A quick look around this website suggests cheap fares to Hawaii are a common occurrence and not unique to Southwest Airlines. If you wish to associate poor tourist behavior with Southwest entering the Hawaii market, congratulations as you have been awarded the Madison Prize.
Poor tourist behavior can more likely be attributed to the increasingly frequent constant cash grabs around every corner of Hawaii.
I am exhausted from hearing locals calling us privileged for wanting to afford a trip to Hawaii. The room and food, car rental is so way out of hand. Airline specials help us to soften the blow a bit. I just want to return for one more trip around paradise and would love it if there was more Aloha in the voice of locals.
This is not the topic. Stay on topic. Not everyone is going to be the way you want them to be. We all have tourists. Stay on topic please.
I hesitate to say this because I know many people will consider it “fat shaming” and I truly don’t intend it that way… but I think that if someone cannot fit into the skinny economy seats without spilling over into their neighbor’s personal space, they should not be allowed to purchase those economy seats. It’s not fair for their neighbors to “pay the costs” of their size. E.g., recently there was a very nice, large man sitting in the center seat next to me, spilling over both armrests into my seat space and his other neighbor’s space. I literally had to push his belly fat out of the way to access the video controls and recline button on the armrest. It was gross and terribly awkward for both of us.
It isn’t fat shamming when it is fact.
I was on a flight once when the people in front of me, my wife and daughter reclined their seat all the way back. I couldn’t recline because the poor guy behind me had to spread his legs wide just to be able to sit in his seat!
I asked the flight attendant if she could ask the people in front of us to raise their seat, and they didn’t even sit all the way back but they wouldn’t. So, every time I or my family members had to use the lav, we had to grab their seats and shake them just to get out of our seats.
I’m not to small; 5’11”, 190, wife is 5’4″, 110 and daughter was 5′, 95.
When I have to reach down to get something out of my backpack from the seat in front, I have to stick my head into my wife’s lap, and she gets upset.
I have often thought that since seats are so close that the seat recline should be reduced so that you can exit your seat without seeing the reclined person. I was on a flight where the person in front of me reclined immediately and was practically in my lap.i had to grab his seat to get into my seat and he gave me a look. If I have to recline my seat I recline about an inch.
i agree. I am tall with most of my height coming from the knee to the thigh so when one feels they have to recline the seat, it is usual and I really think it is so rude. I dont recline just out of respect. But i sure wish the airlines will discontinue this since making seas smaller. Is there a place to write airlines and express our feelings?
It also seems unsafe for evacuation of the plane. No one’s going to be kind and put their seat in upright position before stepping on several people trying to exit.
I remember when AA removed a couple of rows on their MD-80’s back in the 90’s. It was a welcome upgrade as I flew to DFW twice a month for business. I applaud the FAA for even considering what the flying public thinks should be the minimum requirement for seat pitch.
As someone who makes several trips to Hawaii from the West Coast LAX/LGB area, I certainly think we need a bit more room in economy. We have standardized and become Hawaiian frequent fliers. On the A330 the extra comfort legroom is ok, but the seat width is tight. I am 5’11 and hardly overweight with a 35 inch waist. Even to me the seat width is too small. On the A321eno even the EC seat on that single aisle plane is too tight.
I know that complete evacuation is supposed to take place in 90 seconds. If a night and a true emergency is taking place it will be darned near impossible for people to get out in 3 or 4 minutes!
I am thin but tall and I end up booking aisle seats because it is so hard to get out to go to the restroom. I usually have to pay a premium for that seat now, just charge a little more for a ticket and get rid of all the premium, etc. seats. Also, once someone reclines their seat my knees are in my chest! Please make bigger seats!!
Yeah, the attempt to jazz up and brand SRO as sexy “Skyrider” seats certainly went over like a lead balloon. How stupid do they think we are?
I am a small person, and yet, especially as I get further along in years, these incredibly shrinking seats are dysfunctional. I look around at passengers much larger than I, and can only imagine their discomfort, especially on longer flights. The seat pitch means that you are pitched back, off balance, anytime you try to stand, or exit the row. Applaud FAA for finally, hopefully doing something.
I hope more people will comment to the FAA. I totally understand Rob’s dilemma, as my grandson is 6’3″ at 14 and most of that is in his legs. We always purchase extra comfort seats because he just won’t fit in economy–although I have to say that the “extra comfort” seats on the Neo aircraft flown by Hawaiian offers very little in extra comfort. If he continues to grow, we will have to look at upgrading, and maybe take fewer trips. That would be sad. Thanks for including a link so that people can comment to the FAA. I did that last week after getting the link on another site. Safety and comfort should be taken seriously.
This was quite possibly the most idiotic proposal ever conceived for airplane travel. I wouldn’t do it even for the short inter-island flights, much less flights from the mainland!
I do wish they would point out in the departure videos that the aisle armrest for coach seats is movable and makes exiting your seat so much easier. This would be especially helpful in an evacuation situation. I doubt 10% of people on any given flight know about it, though.
Mahalo BOH!
Hi Ed.
Thank you for this comment, which makes number 203. Much appreciated.
Aloha.
I typically sit in a window seat when I can, and the person sitting in the aisle seat almost never raises the armrest when they they exit the row at our destination. If everyone would do that before they stand up, it would be much faster for the rest of the passengers to exit! And for those of us bent down under the overhead bins it’s not easy to reach the button on the outside of the armrest – I often have to ask another passenger waiting in the aisleway to raise it for me.
Hawaiian could be the comfort leader if they cared to be.
Remove 3 rows, some with less than 6 seats across.
To retain the same revenue, Hawaiian would have to increase prices in coach and premium coach $40-$60 round trip. They would also save on fuel and snacks and in premium coach “meals”.
Sure they would have to promote this more than most other things. The b/s about being Hawaii’s Hawaiian airline – isn’t working – United is the real Hawaiian airline. No, we usually fly Hawaiian. And, now that they are the only airline that flies nonstop from Ontario, it’s a no brainer.
We need one airline to be the comfort airline – min 35 inches in coach and 39″ in premium coach. Will it be Hawaiian?
I totally agree. I’d be willing to pay a bit more and have all seats uniform.
Won’t Happen. Southwest is so predatory and will sell cheap seats to hurt their competitors. Remember when Costco was cheap. After they destroyed the mom and pops they now can charge whatever they want.
I hurt my neck trying to get something out of my backpack under the seat and again the times I dropped something and struggled to pick it up. There is not enough space front to back.
It’s hard to get out to go to the bathroom when I sit by the window.
The type of aircraft is critical to one’s flying experience. I fly Alaska to Maui frequently. The 737-800 and 737-900 are comfortable for me at 6’1″ and 235 lbs. In three weeks I’m headed to Oahu on a 737-900 Max ETOPS and am curious to see what the seat comfort and personal space is going to be like. Also, I always sit on the aisle…these long legs require it. Mahalo for your timely updates, BOH gents!
Hi Tom.
Thanks for sharing your experiences on flights to Hawaii. Editor Jeff is 6′ while Rob is 6’4″, I want to say that difference is huge when pasting oneself into an economy airline seat, especially for a five-hour Hawaii flight.
Aloha.
Interesting on a number of levels. Full disclaimer…I haven’t sat in economy in years when I do travel back to the mainland but…
1) Hawaii is overcrowded as stated many times on this forum…if you need bargain prices to get here you probably won’t have the finances to do much else to contribute to the economy and are probably not the “valued” tourist that the tourism agencies and government have said they want to focus on.
2) I’d assume most people that can afford Hawaii would be happy to spend more for a seat With some leg room without having to pay 2-3k for first class. Seems the airlines are hurting the majority to cater to the few by adding rows of seats.
My 2 cents at least.
Happy aloha Friday gents
Hi Chris.
Thanks. We appreciate your input (and enjoy reading it).
Aloha.