Airline travel hit a new low this week. What’s your take on the United Airlines (UAL) debacle? Since you can’t drive to Hawaii, and we have a strong reliance on air travel, all of us will need to get on board to demand changes.
We haven’t found many people who aren’t talking about the UAL passenger being violently thrown off the plane to make room for an employee. It has caught the attention of the world and also the tone deaf responses from UAL as they continue to grovel while their stock tumbles.
But it didn’t stop there, and like many things, the long tail headed straight for Hawaii flights in an incident from last week. We perked up when we saw this newly reported threat happened on our home island, Kauai, where United is facing yet another big problem.
A United Airlines customer on Kauai was threatened to be placed in handcuffs.
Geoff Fearns, age 59, was removed from his seat on the UAL flight from Kauai to LAX. Ferns, who heads a real estate investment company, had been attending a conference. Heading home, he purchased a $1,000 full-price first class ticket. Fearns boarded the plane and was enjoying a pre-departure drink when a UAL employee told him he would need to get off the flight. When asked why he needed to, “they said the flight was overfull.” Fearns was told he would be placed in cuffs if he did not comply.
United indicated that due to mechanical issues with an aircraft, planes had been changed to one with fewer first class seats that resulted in the oversold condition. Fearns said that United resorted to its “how to screw over customers” guidelines and determined that someone else had higher priority than he did.
As in the more recent UAL incident, the airline again failed to appropriately deal with this problem at the gate before boarding commenced. Instead, Fearns was allowed to take his seat and was never advised that there was a problem until the incident nearly became violent.
Could United make this nightmare worse? You betcha! Fearns indicated that he wanted to get home and the only compromise offered him was an economy class middle seat between a couple who were fighting.
So how did United step up to the plate to rectify their wrongs? Fearns asked for a full refund of his first class ticket and for United to make a charitable donation. They refused. Instead, they offered to provide the difference in cost between the first class fare and the economy fare, plus $500 in future flight credit. Somehow, however, we are doubtful that this customer plans on flying the friendly skies anytime soon. When asked about returning to another United flight, the Fearns responded, “Are you kidding?” This meager compensation stands in sharp contrast to today’s news that all passengers on the other UAL nightmare flight are to receive complete refunds.
The Los Angeles Times reached out to UAL about this incident and their inquiry was not responded to.
We do know some of the UAL staff here on Kauai and have inquired to see what they know about this incident. While this is getting to be too common an incident for United, this stands as antithetical to a normal airline experience on Kauai. In this case, the customer said that crew members apologized en route for what had happened.
Fearns is considering suing United Airlines.
In terms of getting bumped, here’s how airlines that fly to Hawaii rank from most to least deplanements on their Hawaii flights.
Delta Airlines (worse than United!)
United
America
Alaska
Virgin America
Hawaiian Airlines (least likely to get bumped).
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Katrina, Stephanie and Kim have succumbed to the airlines tactics of misdirection. The issue is the airlines practices of overbooking, knowing they can do so because of their “fine print” where the penalty to them is less a slap on the hand for overbooking.
So when an incident happens the airlines hide behind their policies citing they were within their right. The real misdirection comes from the unseen parties, the real culprits, who makes it possible for them to do so, their highly paid lobbyists in WA DC who provide high level of incentives to the people who are in power to create the kind of laws that the airline to operate with very little impunity.
The fine print on an airlines ticket allows the airlines to be lazy in how to avoid incidents. First, developing the right software to prevent overbooking. Two, if and when there is an overbooking, announce it to the passengers on the flight, BEFORE, boarding begins with incentive levels sufficient to entice a passenger to give up their existing seat for the incentive. Once in their seats, what passenger doesn’t believe that the seat they paid for is now theirs and will be traveling to their destination without incident?
If the “fine print” was reworded to say that once the passengers are in their seats that “fine print” is now null and void I can assure you that an incident of dragging out a passenger kicking and screaming all over the internet would never have occurred. Immigrants are treated better.
There is no question to any rational person, regardless of the airlines “fine print” should the Dr have been physically mishandled. A more appropriate deescalation management and a customer oriented techniques should have been employed.
UAL and the law enforcement personnel that were involved are now being educated on the impact of not doing so. Everyone with a cell phone camera are watching. Its not just big brother any longer.
Overbooking practices and “fine print” that allows the airlines to do so that ignores a paying customers rights needs to be reexamined along with unveiling the real highly paid lobbyists who lay the groundwork for the airlines to do so.
I’d like to point out what I feel is a critical interpretation issue about what airlines can and can’t do. It’s clearly obvious that airlines have a very wide latitude in forcing customers to comply. For many reasons, especially for safety, this is critically important.
However, as I see it, the contract of carriage specifies the airline may deny BOARDING for a large number of reasons. The issues here are that the passengers were GRANTED boarding and the airline, in their mistake wants passengers to DE-PLANE. IMHO once the airline granted boarding, they are in violation of their contract of carriage in any attempt to force a customer off the plane due to their mistake. This isn’t a safety, weather or mechanical issue. This is an out right error on the part of United. If they wanted to be able to exercise their power and deny boarding for virtually any reason, they shoyld have done. They gave up their right to boot a passenger for non safety reasons once they granted boarding.
I find it abhorrent that the right to deny boarding is being used to force deplaining. I find it abhorrent that United wants to enforce rules against passengers yet not follow those rules. In the gentleman’s case in this article, not enough details are provided. Even if United had a right to deplane him, his $500 compensation and fare downgrade do not appear to he in line with what United should have done. And in the case of the doctor the other day, United failed to offer the maximum they could of before lying that passengers would be selected at random. There are algorithms which prioritize who is selected. At a minimum, no airline with any inteligence would allow the random selection of an 8 year old where the mother was on the flight, or vice versa. And I bet Bo one in 1st class would be selected. The only reason this article covers a 1st class passenger is because the replacement plane has fewer 1st class seats than the original plane.
I think this just reflects the airline industry. Through financial pressures we have seen competition lessen through collapses and acquisitions and where once airlines competed on customer service it is now all about revenue. So overbooking goes up and crews and aircraft are scheduled ever tighter. Then Efficiencies in maintenance. All of which makes the likelihood of bumping increase. If you are on a frequent route then you get ancouple of hours delay but on a daily or twice daily flight with narrowbodies or RJ’s it is a disaster waiting to happen. Unfortunately the airlines have embraced technology to lower check in costs without updating effective management controls. So the airline staff who do not write the rules have to do the dirty work. I am afraid that consumer legislation is necessary. Fining airlines for bumping or downgrading will just result in canceled flights. I believe that in the case such as these a passenger should have the right to be flown on the next available service (whether direct or through another city) on any carrier in the booked
Class or better and the airline should fund any charges. The current arrangements keeping you on their metal provide no incentives for them. Similar to on time performance, pax voluntary
Or involuntary bumped or downgraded stats should be published.
I used to fly United….a lot, as I live in Hawaii and worked in San Francisco. As their service continued to spiral downward, I flew more and more Hawaiian flights…even though at the time it meant layover in HNL. Now I ONLY fly Hawaiian, and it is great. I would NEVER fly United again…like, EVER. What creeps.
We fly United 2-3 times a year to Hawaii from the east coast, never had a bad experience. One mechanical issue forced a landing in California and rebooking the next day. United reps were awesome gave us hotel and food vouchers the rep used her personal phone to call someone she knew at Hawaiian air and got us on early morning flight to destination.
I was disappointed with their recent issue, but I do think the airport police that did the pulling off of the passenger are more at fault. Where did they get their training?
United needs to make amends for this action no doubt. However, ask enough people and you will find discontent .
All passengers should read the Passenger Bill of Rights..you can look it up online so that you know what rights you have in different circumstances.
I have never flown with United. After hearing everyone’s horror stories this week, I surely never will. Once I’m in my seat I assume it’s mine.
Unbelievable! The art of diplomacy and “the costumer is always right” has been lost on UAL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVQcXR2HVhw
I’m unsubscribing from your newsletter due to the sensational nature of this article. Stick to evidence and keep your dramatization to yourselves. But thanks for helping clean out my inbox!
Nothing sensational about this article, from my point of view. I found it very helpful. I will NOT be ever flying United or Delta, when I can help it.
Thank you!
Mahalo Candy!
Aloha.
Seems to me evidence has been presented; where’s your beef, Katrina?
Mahalo nui Nick!
Aloha.
I have been treated very badly by United in the past. The crews, ground personnel, and attitude toward passengers is surly, disrespectful, and denigrating. I was once forced to repack my carry on by the gate attendant because she did not like a “bulge” she saw in the side pocket. It was a nightgown! I was in first class. While she was busy with me, countless travelers with very oversized carry on luggage boarded the plane. Was I singled out because I am elderly and in a wheelchair? Or maybe she didn’t like my looks. Now I wonder what she would have done if I protested the repacking, or worse yet, if I did not comply with her every mean comment and order. As it turned out, she would not let me board with the standard carry on and it was checked in with all my meds and food. In LA no wheelchair was there for my arrival and no ground personnel were anywhere to be seen. I limped to the gate where, after one hour, I found an airport trolley to bring me to the gate of my connecting flight. As this was a direct violation of the ADA, I reported United to the FAA who fined them $23,000 after a few months of investigation. So What? That is a pittance in relation to the billions they rake in. Obviously the airline has sunken even lower.
I no longer fly United and have not for many years. Everyone should do likewise and boycott this airline. It deserves to go straight down the tubes where it belongs. If enough people boycott United, something will give. No one I know likes this airline. Deservedly so.
Totally agree! THANK YOU Ellen!
So, what exactly are our rights if we’re bumped? At one time this week I read if the airline delayed you over two hours when bumped you would receive 2 times the price of your ticket.
I have no idea what happens if you’re bumped to the back when you paid full fare.
Personally, we left United several years ago because of too many canceled flights between SFO and Sacramento with no compensation.
We have only flown United twice and BOTH times we were left stranded with little recourse and absolutely NO offer of compensation. I think they gave us a few extra miles one time. I have since used all of my United miles for restaurant.com vouchers and plan NEVER to fly United again (and we have not had that unhappy experience now for over ten years).
We flew American once to Hawaii and were left stranded overnight due to blue collar flu in 2007. Have never flown American since. They put us up in a HORRID hotel in an area where no one spoke English and offered NO comp.
We flew Aloha and were happy with that flight. But, alas, they are no longer in business.
We have flown Hawaiian Airlines and love it and plan to fly to Kauai later this year on Hawaiian.
I do believe the ONLY language some companies understand is NO FURTHER BUSINESS.
No one should have to endure what these paying customers have endured at the hands of United Airlines or any other airline – and MANY OTHERS have and suffered in silence while they were ‘forced’ off their flights due to whatever the airline deemed a good excuse.
If we treated our customers with this level of disrespect – we would be out of business in no time flat.
There are other airlines and I would definitely fly another line – until, of course, they screwed me over as well. :0(
What’s next? I don’t want to know…………
I’m with Katrina. This is certainly an opinion piece, not unbiased news. I’ve flown hundreds of thousands of miles for both pleasure and business, including with United who has a hub in my city. They’re not my favorite, but they do get me where I want to go. I’ve been inconvenienced at times by a number of airlines around the world, yet I’ve have many a great flight too. More good than bad for sure.
In the Kauai case, if I really needed to get home, I take the available seat, the $500 voucher and go home. Am I aggravated with the airline? Of course. Do my immediate needs get met, sure they do. Other than the elderly woman who responded on this page and has a valid complaint, what in the world do you think the airline OWES you for your inconvenience? Free flights for life? A room at the Four Seasons? Come on, snowflakes.
Read your passenger bill of rights BEFORE you fly (and complain); know the laws and what compensation may be due you if an aviation issue arises. Learn that no matter how aggravated you are, if you pose a security risk, the proper authorities may remove you – even by force – if you persist. No different than if you are belligerent with a policeman when he’s giving you a speeding ticket on the highway. Travel informed and you’ll not feel victimized any longer.
Air travel security is serious business and I’m very glad it is. We live in a dangerous world and not everyone tells the truth about their situation or has good intentions. The doctor who was removed from the UAL flight this week certainly was no honest, upstanding citizen as we’ve come to find out.
Thank you, Stephanie, for posting some common sense – it seems to be lacking in many people’s knee-jerk reactions to this case!
People do need to travel informed, and continue to seek facts when interpreting the “news”. Think critically, and don’t think what happened with one airline doesn’t happen with another! The amount of ignorant misjudgement in this case is appalling.
Stephanie’s comments are most disturbing! What has his background to do with the violence done to him? We need to resist such thinking. Blame the victim? Perhaps airlines should mandate that only angels can fly?
My thoughts exactly. Whatever this guy did in the past has nothing to do with this incident and I’m appalled that UAL lawyers dug that up and threw that out there, to denigrate the passenger whom they treated so horribly and justify what UAL and airport security did.
When one is SEATED on an airplane (ANY carrier) one has a reasonable expectation that they should be transported to their destination. For an airline to wait until after a passenger is seated to then forcibly un-seat them is inexcusable. If Stephanie doesn’t mind paying to be treated disrespectfully like cattle, then that’s her problem. No one should tolerate being kicked off a plane after they’ve taken their seat because the airline didn’t plan properly. That should not be the passenger’s problem. An airline that engages in this practice is just poorly managed and it’s simple a bad business practice on the part of the airline.