Although the general consensus is that after an Alaska merger the goal would be a 100% Boeing fleet, I wonder how the Airbus A-220 would work as a replacement for the 717? I have not been on one but size would certainly be good for the inter-island flights.
As a licensed commercial pilot there’s dead give away if a plane isn’t being serviced properly. I look at tires, landing gear struts, missing rivets, any exterior tape, how clean is exterior & interior of aircraft.
We just flew Hawaiian 717’s OGG to KOA and back all looked good including cockpit. As indicated in your article spoke to flight crew all seemed happy with 717.
As long as the superior servicing is kept up the 717 should still be reliable for the next 5 years. As per the comfort factor it was a 35 minute flight enough said.
I remember when the MD-80, and 90 were new. Great aircraft. An old friend was a captain for American on the MD-80 series and loved flying it. He said it was the most “airplane” airliner, meaning it flew exactly as he learned. As a passenger, I am not sure I could deal with 2 or 3 hour legs, however what is the longest inter-island leg? Hilo to Honolulu? I can endure the “bus” seats and lack of IFE for that long. I do agree that the 717 is getting a bit old and worn looking, as am I. I know some have talked about the Max 7, but would it have the range to be pressed into west coast service if necessary? The Max 8, yes.
Interesting points, good article. Airline pilots have no involvement in the parts acquisition and pricing process. The comments about safety are valid. The 717 is safe as the article noted, one of the safest planes flying. The Max has had issues (catastrophic issues) but safe now with the software fixes. The Max is more expensive to buy and operate than the 717. It is not optimum for short haul. SW prices are losing a lot of money, they charge $220+ for similar length flights mainland. The 717 is way cheaper to operate, and are owned by HA, no lease payments. Delta is adding wifi to its 717s next year (an expensive mod, they fly longer legs) and plans to keep them going, they will determine how long the 717 continues to operate.
The issue is not the age of the 717 (DC9-95) airframe. The issue is the inability of the CFM or LEAP family of jet engines to operate in the Hawaii inter island air transportation market. Unlike the BR217 on the current 717 fleet or the JT8D-200 before it on the DC9 and 737-200, the CFM and LEAP jet engines are unable to preform the hot start and quick turnaround of the high frequency flight operations required for Hawaii inter island market. The jet engine required for this mission is not currently available on a 737. They could be make available in the next two to three years.
The extension of service is likely due to having to wait for the 737-7 and not a pure economic decision. They’d be pretty far down the list if they order them, especially since it’s still not certified. My guess is the ugly A33’s are next with the new 787 starting to come online. Finally the A321neos. I have no doubt Alaska and Hawaiian will be all Boeing in the not too distant future.
I am not sure why B O H is trying to make a story out of this. Hawaiian has a spotless safety record! The 717 is a smaller plane, but for a 30 -to 50 minute inter island flight, its not a big deal.
Incurring additional debt to replace a perfectly good fleet makes no sense at all right out of the gate.
Not only that, the 717’s wider 2-3 abreast versus Boing’s slimmer 3-3 seating actually makes the 717 More comfortable over any 737 variant. With a lower service door, the 717 can be turned around in less than 25 minutes. Boarding and deplaning are also quicker on a 717. Only drawback is the overhead bin space.
How much interisland service would the Hawaiian people be willing to lose if the 717s get replaced? If the answer is none, it can’t be done with the current crop of modern jets as a one to one replacement. That is one of the reasons Southwest doesn’t have the same frequency service as Hawaiian. They run their service as a tag service, interisland followed by a trip to the mainland. The MAX engines require a longer period to cool down after a flight which would lead to a drop on the number of interisland flight that can be operated in one day unless you have extra jets. Maybe the five years will allow for the development of a suitable replacement.
I just fly hawaiian. Old or new, it was in hawaii.
It does not matter, a 717, a 737, accidents still happen.
We all put our lives in the hands of the Pilot, because like a car, he is our driver.
But I always say a prayer for the Pilot, and ask God for angels to help him fly us to safety.
I think they should replace the 717 with the more efficient airbus 220
Although the general consensus is that after an Alaska merger the goal would be a 100% Boeing fleet, I wonder how the Airbus A-220 would work as a replacement for the 717? I have not been on one but size would certainly be good for the inter-island flights.
As a licensed commercial pilot there’s dead give away if a plane isn’t being serviced properly. I look at tires, landing gear struts, missing rivets, any exterior tape, how clean is exterior & interior of aircraft.
We just flew Hawaiian 717’s OGG to KOA and back all looked good including cockpit. As indicated in your article spoke to flight crew all seemed happy with 717.
As long as the superior servicing is kept up the 717 should still be reliable for the next 5 years. As per the comfort factor it was a 35 minute flight enough said.
I remember when the MD-80, and 90 were new. Great aircraft. An old friend was a captain for American on the MD-80 series and loved flying it. He said it was the most “airplane” airliner, meaning it flew exactly as he learned. As a passenger, I am not sure I could deal with 2 or 3 hour legs, however what is the longest inter-island leg? Hilo to Honolulu? I can endure the “bus” seats and lack of IFE for that long. I do agree that the 717 is getting a bit old and worn looking, as am I. I know some have talked about the Max 7, but would it have the range to be pressed into west coast service if necessary? The Max 8, yes.
The MAX 7 has an even higher range than the MAX 8.
Interesting points, good article. Airline pilots have no involvement in the parts acquisition and pricing process. The comments about safety are valid. The 717 is safe as the article noted, one of the safest planes flying. The Max has had issues (catastrophic issues) but safe now with the software fixes. The Max is more expensive to buy and operate than the 717. It is not optimum for short haul. SW prices are losing a lot of money, they charge $220+ for similar length flights mainland. The 717 is way cheaper to operate, and are owned by HA, no lease payments. Delta is adding wifi to its 717s next year (an expensive mod, they fly longer legs) and plans to keep them going, they will determine how long the 717 continues to operate.
The issue is not the age of the 717 (DC9-95) airframe. The issue is the inability of the CFM or LEAP family of jet engines to operate in the Hawaii inter island air transportation market. Unlike the BR217 on the current 717 fleet or the JT8D-200 before it on the DC9 and 737-200, the CFM and LEAP jet engines are unable to preform the hot start and quick turnaround of the high frequency flight operations required for Hawaii inter island market. The jet engine required for this mission is not currently available on a 737. They could be make available in the next two to three years.
The extension of service is likely due to having to wait for the 737-7 and not a pure economic decision. They’d be pretty far down the list if they order them, especially since it’s still not certified. My guess is the ugly A33’s are next with the new 787 starting to come online. Finally the A321neos. I have no doubt Alaska and Hawaiian will be all Boeing in the not too distant future.
I am not sure why B O H is trying to make a story out of this. Hawaiian has a spotless safety record! The 717 is a smaller plane, but for a 30 -to 50 minute inter island flight, its not a big deal.
Incurring additional debt to replace a perfectly good fleet makes no sense at all right out of the gate.
Not only that, the 717’s wider 2-3 abreast versus Boing’s slimmer 3-3 seating actually makes the 717 More comfortable over any 737 variant. With a lower service door, the 717 can be turned around in less than 25 minutes. Boarding and deplaning are also quicker on a 717. Only drawback is the overhead bin space.
How much interisland service would the Hawaiian people be willing to lose if the 717s get replaced? If the answer is none, it can’t be done with the current crop of modern jets as a one to one replacement. That is one of the reasons Southwest doesn’t have the same frequency service as Hawaiian. They run their service as a tag service, interisland followed by a trip to the mainland. The MAX engines require a longer period to cool down after a flight which would lead to a drop on the number of interisland flight that can be operated in one day unless you have extra jets. Maybe the five years will allow for the development of a suitable replacement.