In the past two weeks, the U.S. Senate and House have proposed a new no-fly list of unruly airline passengers convicted or fined for assault or interference with flight crews. The airline unions promoted the concept last year, but no changes were made. The only other no-fly list is that of the FBI. That, however, is to prevent suspected terroristic-associated passengers from being on airlines.
During Covid, the unruly passenger problem was related to airline mask mandates; now, however, those remaining tend to be more serious.
Are you opposed to the new no-fly list?
Some say the FBI list is not transparent and may target specific groups unfairly. There is concern that the new list could be of the exact nature. They also say that such incidents are declining and that the FAA handles these matters well.
“If Congress wants to further reduce air-rage incidents on aircraft, it should look at forcing the airlines to make flying a less miserable experience.” — ACLU
The new law being proposed is by both bodies in Congress. As part of the bill, there are guidelines for notifying those on the list, and an appeal process will be included. The TSA is to determine the duration of the ban.
Why a no-fly list now?
Recent incidents include those in Hawaii and when a passenger recently tried to open an emergency exit and stabbed one of the flight crew using a broken-off spoon as a knife. So while similar legislation failed to get a hearing in Congress last year, it is far more likely to pass this year.
Recent passenger incidents caused nine Hawaii flight diversions.
Hawaii’s nine recent unruly passenger incidents tend to remain in our minds. In January, a flight diverted to Hawaii for an unruly passenger. And that incident came following six other recent unruly passengers Hawaii-related diversions.
That January incident was on a flight from Vancouver to Brisbane that diverted to Hawaii. A flight attendant was “choked out” by a passenger before being zip-tied to his seat. He was arrested on arrival in Honolulu.
And on another day in January, there were two more Hawaii flight diversions due to unruly passengers on American Airlines.
- In December, another unruly passenger event was on a Southwest Hawaii flight. The plane returned to Hawaii.
- Last fall, a passenger was removed from a Hawaiian Airlines flight, and the plane returned to the gate. The California woman became abusive when seated in economy after purchasing a business class seat.
- Also, last year, a UAL flight from San Francisco to Honolulu turned back to San Francisco due to erratic passenger behavior.
- Then last summer, an unruly Hawaiian Airlines passenger flying from New York to Honolulu attempted to breach the Airbus A330 cockpit. The passenger was subsequently restrained, but the flight was not diverted.
- Again last summer, another UAL diversion occurred when a flight from LA to Tokyo landed in Honolulu due to a physically abusive passenger.
- And lastly, this past summer, a Hawaiian Airlines flight was diverted to Honolulu after an intoxicated passenger assaulted a flight attendant. The Seoul-bound flight turned back to Honolulu, where the passenger was arrested.
What’s your take on a new national no-fly list?
I am in favor of it, with the following stipulations:
1) A person placed on such list will be on for a specified time, say 5 years for a first offense. A second offense gets a new 15 years!
2)There must be a notification made to the person following the offense and some sort of appeal process.
3) Having a very common name, I used to have serious issues and was always subjected to additional screening until I found a form to get cleared from whatever list I was on. I now have TSA Pre-Check.
I think it is good to have the no fly list.
However, it is often a bit one sided.
People who just insist on their services that they paid for have been removed as unruly passengers. That’s not right either.
We need some checks an balances here that also takes overbearing flight attemdents who try to deny passengers the services they paid for into account.
If the passenger was shouting or insulting, no matter the reason or who was in the right, that passenger was unruly and should have been ejected. There is no excuse for an adult to raise her voice or behave offensively on an aircraft.
Great!
Off subject: I’ve been trying to plan our next stay on Maui for October of this year. By now I usually have a nice package booked for our stay in Wailea, but high prices has stopped me from booking.
Today there’s been quite a price drop on resorts located in Wailea, so I will book through Costco and cancel to rebook if prices drop again.
This is long over due. We had inflight distruptions before mask mandates. Mask Mandates was another reason to fight and be disruptive. The money and time that everyone is out due to these disruptions is exhorbant. Plus, the stress of these events if you are a passenger and crew is traumatizing. As a crew member we are at our wits end. We don’t just experience one of these events, unfortunately, we may have more than one trip with events of these sorts. It is taking a toll on all of us. We all should be able to experience a pleasant flight without vulgar, violence etc. Of course, your inflight crew would love it if passengers inflight experience was more comfortable, spacious etc. We are the first to advocate for those changes.
As a local resident, peace of mind traveling to the mainland and elsewhere is very important. Flight crews need protection from known , risky individuals. Anyone who wants to travel needs to abide by the rules for workability. If you don’t want to abide by rules, don’t fly. It’s simple.
So ready for a no fly list. Behave or don’t fly.
A friend of mine was on a flight that was diverted due to a disruptive passenger. He missed his connecting flight, and had to stay overnight in the airport. He is suing that passenger for all his troubles and lost time. Not sure how it will turn out, but imagine if all 200+ passengers did the same? If he wins any amount, put it on all the news channels and let everyone know the cost! Then give that passenger a lifetime ban for flying on all airlines.
Hope your friend wins! Agree with everything you said.
Before a no-fly list is implemented, Unacceptable behavior needs to be defined. Obviously, physical assault qualifies, but what about raising your voice when treated poorly? Should a flight attendant be allowed to place a passenger on a no-fly list because they’re having a bad day?
What is the appeal process if you’re placed on the list? What’s the duration of of a passenger’s no-fly ban? Forever?
Be careful what you wish for – The government often doesn’t think things through prior to implementing policies.
From all the scenarios mentioned before, the only one I have would have sympathy for is someone raising their voice because they were placed in economy even though they paid for business or 1st class. That is unacceptable. However, it could still be dealt with later, i.e. asking for a full refund of the airfare through their credit card and/or airline.
I would like to know how many,if any, air rage criminals are repeat offenders?
Seems like this will do nothing to prevent 99% or more of the incidents.
As long as the airlines continue to sell alcohol, and the population is pumped full of legal and illegal drugs this will only get worse.
I wouldn’t be opposed to random drug tests before boarding a plane …
There should be a national no fly list for unruly travelers. Its nit safe for the airline staff or other passengers.
Much of the past “bad behavior” listed in the post seems to fit my understanding of criminal misdemeanor and felony offenses. I am no lawyer, but choking another person and stabbing another person are clearly assaults, which are crimes, last time I checked. Attempting to open an emergency exit or a flight deck access door are at least malicious mischief offenses, perhaps worse. I support adding flying restrictions as penalties in the criminal codes, not as an administrative FAA penalty. The FAA has plenty of work they are already behind on, so let the criminal justice system manage charges, judgements, penalties and appeals.
If one is to implement a no fly list based on acceptable and non acceptable behavior then it will need to be married to an acceptable behavior list for carriers. I believe that those who act dangerously as a result of alcohol or drugs should be punished, Those who act irrationally because of mental health issues should be offered treatment and probably should not fly until the treatment has eased the issues. However where airlines overbook and involunteriiy bump passengers off one flight to another, bump confirmed pax to a lower class of service or delay them to a different day the airline bears the responsibility. It would not be popular but this list needs to amend Airlien behavior as well as pax. So no deliberate bumping.
Airlines have better ideas of possible unruly passengers than any federal entity
FAA can only deter terrorists group but not lone wolf abusive passengers, These data base should be available to all domestic and international carriers
Preventive measures are always better than reactive after the fact
I have always thought the FBI’s no fly list was non-sense. If an individual is to dangerous to fly on a commercial aircraft, that person is to dangerous to walk the streets and should be incarcerated or out on bail. Special circumstances for the existing federal laws governing aviation (mandatory federal prison time, etc.) might be a better idea. Ultimately, airlines as ostensibly independent businesses in a free market should be able to maintain their own no fly lists, much like the the “we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone” signs you see in some restaurants and other businesses. It should be up to the individual airlines to set the standards for behavior on their aircraft. If included in the C of C it would prevent litigation
A no fly list should be a no brainier for people accused of and ultimately found guilty of causing a disturbance of any kind on an airplane during flight.
Yes, I am all for the “no fly list”. Those passengers obviously don’t care about other passengers, so let them stay out!
It’s about time!!
“If Congress wants to further reduce air-rage incidents on aircraft, it should look at forcing the airlines to make flying a less miserable experience.” — ACLU I agree 100%! I have been on 10 hour flights delayed on the runway, seats that had no legroom or seat width, excessive heat because the AC wasn’t working. I kept it together, but felt a bit rage-y. Realistically, everyone can’t fly first class and economy can be torture on long flights. There’s talk about making economy seating even worse. FAA must establish reasonable minimum standards.
They should do both. There is no excuse for the actions taken by unruly passengers and there should be no tolerance and the quality of the experience should be more strongly regulated since there is diminishing competition.
Dot, with all due respect, I am not sure where the constitution provides for a “right to fly”. If there are no airlines to provide the experience you feel entitled to, there is always the bus, train, car, boat, etc.
Further federal involvement will not make the flying experience any better. Vote with your wallet and Caveat Emptor!
Dan J – Unfortunately, airplanes are the only reasonable way to get off the islands. So, while trains and cars might be great solutions for those on the mainland, the airlines literally have a captive audience here in Hawaiʻi. Regarding the regulations, I don’t believe in a “right to fly” but I do believe in safety regulations. If packing us into the plane like sardines is a contributing factor to these rage outbreaks then it might be time for legroom to be regulated.
Put them on a freighter they’ll have plenty of time to chill and drink and if they screw with the crew they’ll end up in the brig until they make port.
Very funny! I am sure there was a time something like this could have happenend..
Nobody forces anyone to fly. There might be exceptions, but going on a 10 hour flight for vacation, is not one of them.
Typical of the ACLU to divert the subject from a passengers personal responsibility to act like civil, sane adults and cast the blame on bad behavior on the airline. Many times, drunk or drugged loonies leave the airport bars only to cause a disturbance on a plane even before it can taxi down the runway.
It would be great if improvements could be made to air travel, but to blame the airlines for a criminals behavior because they didn’t get a window or aisle seat is irresponsible.
Create a list and spare the adults on the plane from entitled miscreants.
100% agree.
Everyone needs to chill and go watch “Snakes On A Plane”. It’s streaming for free on Amazon Prime. Highly recommended.
Oh, come on! No one is “entitled” to act up, have a hissy, yell, or choke a flight attendant because a flight is late, the leg room is tight, the peanuts are rancid, or any other flimsy excuse to be a creep. We are flying to Kauai once again, in December, I am concerned that someone like this will be on our flights; someone who thinks, once again, that he/she is entitled to be a bit “rage-y.” Lock em up.
And Kauai don’t need those people on the ground either …Hope you have a great trip.