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Comments

  1. Lopaka15 says

    An attorney should figure out how to represent airlines ,and injured parties(passengers) who lost money, vacation time and, or business opportunities due to a violators actions on an aircraft. Maybe a few class action suits, in addition to the criminal charges would help deter these events

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    • Heyward B. says

      Hello LOPAKA15,

      Interesting you wish to see the lawsuits fly (no pun). I thought about that also.

      Generally, the problem in these type situations is that with a civil judgement you wind up with a 2001 Volvo with 200,000 miles and, if they are really prosperous, a 30 year old house needing $50,000+ of repairs to meet minimum standards to market it. There are more judgement proof passengers than one might imagine, including those up front in the big seats.

      Hit them with felony charges? Take a flight disruption and a bruise or two to a jury in Chicago where 60 people a weekend are shot or worse and I don’t think the jury pool is necessarily going to be too very impressed. The appearance of heavy-handed prosecution can be problematic.

      The above aside, I agree these type occurrences are unacceptable and must be dealt with in a serious manner. Given that I think a bit of this is a back-blast from COVID restrictions, I just think lawsuits aren’t quite the best answer. I tend to believe the longer-term solution may well lie with a COVID control effort that is a little more carrot and somewhat less stick.

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  2. Sean p says

    If you have noticed airline employees are ruder than ever and falling well below previous customer service levels. Their unions whine about customers talking speaking out after receiving poor service. There is still free speech in this country and airline employees should not expect silence from customers they mistreat. Other jobs like teachers, law enforcement officers and firefighters endure verbal abuse and even Real confrontations everyday, but it seems no one is concerned with that. Maybe the airlines should start with being polite to their customers and stop treating them like brianless cattle. That might just correct the issue. Airlines might consider “do not employ list” rather than “no fly list” as a solution.

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    • Ronald W says

      Maybe if people would stop acting like idiots, sit down, and shut up maybe the flight crew would be less rude.

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  3. Sid says

    I get so angry when I hear these stories. People need to follow the rules, comply or stay home. Those of us law abiding and respectful people have a right to enjoy our flights and not worry. I’m glad they are banning alcohol and all airlines should share no fly lists and these lists need to be in place indefinitely.
    I give the flight attendants a lot of credit. They aren’t paid enough to deal with idiots.
    I think jail time and very large fines should also be a part of the charges against these violent people.

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  4. Tin S says

    I believe these numbers would be higher or would reflect issues that did not escalate because passengers (like myself) and flight attendants don’t like confrontation. On a recent rt to Hawaii the family across from me were wearing see-through masks which, based on scientific study, serve no purpose other than for the wearer to claim that they were masked. I don’t believe they should have been allowed to board. I said nothing. On the return trip the gentleman to my left wore his mask below his nose the entire flight. Early on I gently pointed out that his mask had slipped and he adjusted it. That didn’t last. The nose was exposed the entire flight . Not wanting to cause an incident, I’ll accept criticism for this), and being fully vaccinated. I did nothing. I am certain there have been many similar cases where the potential for some form of air-rage was averted.

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  5. Laura B says

    Unruly passengers are certainly an issue, however, there are some flight attendants that should go back to customer service school. When we fly we follow all the rules even checking the placard when the flight crew addresses it on pre flight instruction. Last flight from Hawaii there was a young man, flight attendant, that was very rude prior to take off. So rude that the other female flight attendants told him to leave and they would take care of the situation. Perhaps the airlines should look into retraining their flight attendants how to diffuse a situation instead of starting it.

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  6. Joe V says

    I can tell you why many of these incidents are occurring – lack of respect for people and authority. As a child I was taught, by my parents, to respect people and authority and I followed these rules for over 70 years. As a child I was taught to call my elders and people in authority as Mister or Misses and to say yes sir or no sir, yes ma’am or no ma’am. Younger people have not been taught this these days and now we have these incidents.
    So if you want these incident to stop, start teaching respect for authority and people.

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    • Tony S says

      As an “elder” if I act disrespectfully I don’t expect others to disregard abhorrent behavior because I’ve managed not to die in 7 decades. Growing old may entitle one to expect some courtesies to lighten our load, but respect is based on actions and character, not longevity.

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      • Ronald Walters says

        But nothing gives you the right to act like tbat towards other people. If we did half what these young kids do now we would have gotten beat.

  7. Janet says

    Aloha,
    My husband and I went to Maui on the beginning on September. So wonderful! We flew on Hawaiian air. I finished my free meal and I was watching a movie, I forgot all about putting my mask back. A flight attendant very politely reminded me. I apologized and put it back on. The flight attendants are wonderful. We love Hawaiian Airlines, they have wonderful service.

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  8. Paul G says

    Completely beyond me why alcohol is still being served on aircraft with all these issues. Its almost as if they are going to need to do breathalyzers before people board. Geesh. Smarten up people. Stop the booze, before someone dies.

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  9. Heyward B. says

    Undoubtedly an unfortunate event. One of many it seems these days.

    Some of it may be alcohol, some social adjustment issues, and some mental disorders. Those have been with air travel since the Wright Brothers.

    But I think the relatively quick increase in such things as reported herein is largely tied to increasing frustrations with COVID and the widely disparate interpretations of the benefits of restrictive policies imposed as a result. These outburst are the highly visible sparkles of something bubbling up in men and women who increasingly have simply had enough of the “COVID Commandos” and the whipsaw of on-again off-again policies that appear to be accomplishing very little. Every animal has a limit when pressed and confused – some before others – and these are some of the first to turn and bite.

    I do not suggest they are correct nor justified in what they do. They are not.

    I do suggest, however, we have certainly not witnessed the last nor the worst of it.

    7
    • Tony S says

      When you mention “Covid-commandos,” I assume you are referring to those insisting you follow Covid safety guidelines at all times and are sufficiently community minded and confident to remind those who are annoyed at the necessary actions, masking, social distancing. etc., to follow the safety guidelines meant in a large part to protect other people than you. I think you should consider another description of those willing to invite vitriol from those who have chosen to endanger others and thus delay the full opening if our economy that, remembering that Wall Street is not the economy, cannot efficiently function with well over 100,000,000 Americans refusing the same philosophical little jab that ended polio, smallpox the measles and many other diseases. These are the patriotic Americans trying to help their country recover from a horrendous disease that you label Covid commandos.

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      • Heyward B. says

        Hello Tony,

        Thank you for the reply.

        I use the term “COVID commandos” in the sense that more than a few in our society are going out of their normal behavioral envelope to attempt to impose upon others that which the others find without firm basis. I actually think the others are in good find with finding little firm basis. This is due to (1) conflicting information, (2) the failures in obtaining substantial progress retarding the spread of the virus, and (3)the quick and vicious stigmatization of those in non-conformity, whatever their reason.

        We are 18 months into the 15 day flatten the curve. Wear mask – don’t need mask – wear 2 mask. Six feet apart – no six feet apart. Everything back to normal by July 4 – except it isn’t. Vaccines prevent COVID (Presidential announcement) – vaccines last 1 year – then 8 months – then 6 months – now 5 months. Some boosters – not all get boosters. CDC Director overrides advisory panel. Get the vaccine or lose your employment. Mask for you- but not for them.

        What to believe? What is true? And why?

        Most important of all, who is to say?

        7
    • PaulC says

      I have never seen so much anger displayed due to simple rules such as keeping a mask up over your nose. Its a health issue. Just follow the rules. You are Not entitled to any special treatment in the air. I think the airlines need to crack down and hard. No fly lists should all be shared. One incident and your banned at least for a year. There also needs to be heavy fines and jail time

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  10. MaryKay M says

    Here’s an idea, stop the mask mandates and you stop the anxiety. There are no peer reviewed published studies that show masks work, in fact just the opposite. I painted a room with a paint sprayer a few months ago, and guess what, I had paint on the inside and outside of the mask. 3 guess how that happened?!? Masks don’t prevent viruses. My dad wore a mask whenever he went out and he still got covid and died in June. People need to wake up.

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    • Dick M. says

      Masks are not fool proof, but reduce the odds of contracting and spreading disease.
      med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/09/surgical-masks-covid-19.html

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      • David B says

        Surgical masks are to prevent the spread of GERMS-bacteria (remember those things?) that can enter and cause bacterial infections in the patient’s body interior when they are exposed without skin protecting them. The whole idea is to create and maintain sterile environment. They are not being worn to prevent viral spread – which at least in the case of COVID is respiratory. Maybe they also cut down a bit in the amount of viral particles that the personnel breathe out.

        If I had to be cut open and operated on, I would want that to take place in a sterile environment, which includes those surgical masks on the attending personnel. I would be foolish to think that those masks will protect me from catching COVID from those same personnel.

        I don’t know about you, but most face covers I see out there in public are not surgical masks, N-95, etc. They are pieces of cotton cloth fabric with people breathing in and about all sides and especially the tops of them. This describes mine, too. I doubt they do much COVID filtering; maybe sneeze-coughs are at least redirected out the sides, for what that’s worth.

        6
    • Josh S says

      There are more than a dozen peer-reviewed published studies showing that mask wearing reduces SARS-CoV-2 infection risk. So far as I know there are two randomized clinical trials, only one of which is currently peer reviewed and published. The Danish study showed a non-significant 18% relative risk reduction and the Yale/Bangladesh study showed a significant 9% risk reduction in symptomatic infection with surgical but not cloth masks.

      3
      • David B says

        Is the “risk reduction” to the person wearing it or to others that the person is around?

        I vaguely recall being lectured by a government bureaucrat way back when that masks don’t protect the wearer, but instead “protect” people around the wearer. Did that narrative change when I wasn’t paying attention?

        How the heck are 18% or 9% calculated? And I would think a true study/trial would require a non-mask-wearing control group exposed to the same amount of virus and in the same environment as mask-wearers and in statistically relevant numbers. Is that what happened in these studies/trials you refer to?

        2
    • Lizzy says

      Im very sorry for your loss.

      Yes, a big befuddled mystery surrounding masks,and everything else.
      If we are respectful of others,these things do not hapoen.
      Simple golden rule.

      1
    • Nani C says

      Aloha! Another idea is that people who choose not to follow the rules of an airline, or any company, should stay home or frequent establishments that don’t care about their fellow man.
      To live in a polite society there have always been rules so we can live in harmony.

      9
    • PaulC says

      here is an idea. Follow the rules or stay off planes. I wear a mask 8-10 hours 5 days a week and its never caused me one issue.

      10
      • Jim R. says

        So, because you have no issue, PaulC, that means what exactly? Right, absolutely nothing…since everyone is different, and there are people with health conditions that don’t allow them to wear a mask at all, let alone 8-10 hours a day, or in the hot and humid conditions that persist outdoors in Hawaii. 🤷‍♂️

        • Paulc says

          And there are exemptions available for all those. Never said there wasn’t. I know several who cannot get vaccinated. Not sure of hat point your trying to make

          2
  11. Diana E says

    This is ridiculous. There should be an international registry of all airlines of passengers who have been barred from flying on an airline. They are a danger to everyone on a plane. And they should be banned, for life. Period

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  12. Vicki P says

    The flight crews should never have to deal with the mask issues. Unfortunately, all those in DC who mandate mask wearing, refuse to follow their own rules. We see the rich and famous, politicians, all of them, party maskless. Governors going to weddings, rock concerts, restaurants and sending kids to private schools w/no mask policies while lying about it, ( to us here in California), There is no excuse for misbehavior on flights, but Americans are fed up with the hypocrisy and frankly, questionable science surrounding masks.

    11
  13. David S says

    Aloha, I have been wondering why it has taken so long for the airline industry to get together and ban anyone from flying with this type of behavior on any airline. If it’s a medical issues that determination can change the end result, that’s my thought anyway.
    Thank you

    7
  14. Dot S. says

    I haven’t flown really since these incidents have begun. It is unacceptable and inexcusable behavior. Fines should be increased and enforced. Disruptors should be on no fly lists that airlines should share. I think tolerance should be given to young children (under age 10????), because they do cry and will fuss on such a long flight. I’ve read stories where parents were escorted off the plane because of two year olds having trouble masking.

    All airports, especially at the gates should have warnings in bold signage that disruptive behavior will result in removal from the plane (with no reimbursement), fines and if really bad (assault is never acceptable) jail time.

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    • EVAN says

      It’s still a pandemic, COVID is spear by droplets; children should be required to wear masks. If they can’t then they shouldn’t be flying.

      8
    • David B says

      The pilot of our SWA flight read everyone the riot act over a loudspeaker before we boarded this past Wednesday 23rd. That was LIH airport around 2:00 pm, the same day as the two HA incidents. Probably not a coincidence!

      Our flight was nearly empty and very quiet. The flight attendants mostly sat in their seats and read stuff from what I observed. There’s very little in flight service, so they had nothing much to do to occupy their time on a 4+ hour flight.

      I can’t speak for all, but it’s very uncomfortable for me (and I am not alone) to wear a mask for many hours in a row. Except when flying, I normally only have to wear one for a few minutes at a time, maybe once or twice a day (e.g., walking in and out of a restaurant or store visits. People like me (I am not alone) figure out how to sip or nibble on something off and on throughout the flight to make it more bearable. I bring a bag of pistachios, and can nurse a can of soda at least two hours. I was never nagged/scolded by any flight attendant who happened by when I did not have it on. There were several rows of empty seats around us, FWIW.

      No matter how pointless you may believe the rule to be, there is no reason/justification to get nasty at flight attendants, or restaurant workers, or anyone else stuck being the mask Karen. They don’t make the rules, and most of them do not enjoy being mask/vaccine enforcers. IMO, people behaving poorly, rudely and violently is a sign of our times.

      12
  15. Frank P. says

    If you disrupt the safety of all the other passengers and crew, and there is typically plenty of video evidence, it shouldn’t be a slap on the wrist. Absolutely share the no-fly lists, or put them on a national registry. That should have been automatic. 10 years without so much as a parking ticket before you can apply to be taken off the list. I don’t know what the current penalties are, but they should start at $50k AND 5 years. There should be zero tolerance. And bite the concessionaire’s complaint bullet and halt alcohol sales in the airport and on planes. They are the ones apparently overserving. For those that drink responsibly, yes, they are being punished for other’s bad behavior, but the safety of the rest of us shouldn’t be less important than someone’s mai tai.

    And the next time you fly somewhere, anywhere, thank the flight attendants for keeping you safe. And the gate agents, and the sky caps, and the people at the check-in counter for making your trip possible. I’d bet my own money they don’t get the thanks and appreciation they deserve.

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  16. PAMM says

    Mahalo Jeff and Rob! I want to apologize to all airline service providers for all they’re going through to help us all get where we’re going.
    I cannot imagine how terrifying that would be.
    Whatever the reason this guy did what he did, he should be grounded for TWO LIFETIMES!!
    I’m so sick of people abusing others.
    I have a couple of suggestions.
    #1 Compact cattle prod
    #2 Duct tape

    Just sayin.
    As a person who actually had to grab onto an electric fence to make sure it was working, the cattle prod works the same way.
    After applying #1, carefully wrap with #2.
    Repeat as necessary.

    Aloha Beat of Hawaii, until we meet again. Stay safe.

    9
  17. Ken says

    Absolutely the violence on airplanes IA affecting service. I have flown to/from/ and between the Hawaiian Islands several times in the last two months. Flight attendants are making as few trips down the plane as possible.
    I got 1 cup of coffee during a 5 hour flight.
    I do think things might be a bit smoother if the crew didn’t announce 3 times that we should reposition the mask between “bites and sips”.
    That is no excuse for the terrible behavior of bad passengers.
    I think sharing banned passengers lists is a good idea. We don’t need these brutes on our flights. No alcohol also curbs stupid behavior. Finally arrest more of these criminals.. Perp walk them through the airport and publically imbarras them as much as possible before jailing and fining them heavily. Maybe delayed passengers can sue these offenders for lost time. Money and endangerment..
    Then maybe the crew can provide the service they are trained to give to the 99.9% of passengers who know how to behave civilly.

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  18. Nani C says

    I really hope these violent people will be placed on a National no fly list. They need to learn how to behave and live in a polite society.

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