Here’s where we may be soon. Controversial measures for Hawaii travel.
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143 thoughts on “Hawaii Overload: New Rules May Include Entrance by Vaccination Only”
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Here’s where we may be soon. Controversial measures for Hawaii travel.
Get Breaking Hawaii Travel News
Comments are closed.
Thank you for working hard to keep your residents and visitor safe. We love Hawaii and totally understand the motivation to protect your beautiful islands. Ignore the nasty comments like “I hope you go bankrupt”. 🙁 Sorry people have to get ugly and vindictive over a public health threat. As a health educator by trade, I think it’s so odd that a virus/pandemic became political.
Right now, on Oahu, if you have an accident or medical emergency, you cannot get treated in Queens Hospital ICU. It’s not an option because of unvaccinated Covid patients. Their ICU is full and over 90% of the Covid patients are unvaccinated, fact ….and the few breakthrough cases likely got it from an unvaccinated person. That part is my speculation but make up your own mind.
If you can’t see the dilemma Hawaii is facing and only have “what about me!” to add to the discussion you really aren’t welcome now. Nothing personal, but you are suggesting it’s ok to come here and exasperate the problem that is eroding the health care of all to an unacceptable level.
You folks with all your alternate perspectives trying to counter the simple fact that if everyone who could get a vaccination did we would all be much safer are wrong. It is a personal choice but trying to convince others of yours when it could cost them their life is immoral.
Other then that, have a nice day.
Aloha
Excellent. I hope we go 100% to vaccinated only can enter any place. Its the unvaccinated that are keeping us stuck in this virus mode. They all screamed open up! So a vaccine was created then they bitched they dont want the vaccine. Things opened up most got vaccinated so we tossed our masks. Well so did the unvaccinated and boom here we are AGAIN. Interesting that finally Gove and Lt Gove finally seem to be on the same page. Get vaccinated PLEASE>
Here’s Paul C. again, setting up his straw men to blow over in favor of loss of freedoms (but only for people who aren’t like him, “vaccinated”). Who isn’t getting the shot? I’d love to know if the 90% unvaxxed in the ICUs are locals or visitors. More than that, I’d like to reassert that it is the personal decision of the business owners, residents, and indigenous peoples of HI to make their own choices regarding this issue.
This isn’t going away, with or without the shot. Look at Israel, one of the highest vaccination rates (80%?!) in the world, and now they have been added to the USA’s “Do not travel” list b/c of COVID surges. And that “safe and effective” tripe about the shot? Israeli scientists are now claiming it is under 40% effective. I wonder if it is under 40% safe, too? No wonder Fauci wouldn’t answer questions from Senators about the vaccination numbers necessary to achieve herd immunity (also odd that nobody accounts for prior infection in that calculation for herd immunity, defying 100+ years of scientific precedent).
Here’s Harvey again questioning the fact that 90+% of those hospitalized with COVID are the unvaccinated. It is definitely community spread in Hawaii as in all of the lower vaxed states, but what diff. does it make? His basic fact that this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated allowing the virus to further mutate holds true.
Personal choice only goes so far. Let’s take your “freedom” assumption to its logical conclusion and open up the bars and restaurants to smokers again. People should be able to choose, right? See how that flies in the real world.
There is one big difference between that public health analogy and CV-19. It might take years of second hand exposure to reach its desired results. With CV-19, one time. That’s it. The Delta has been rated almost as contagious as Chicken Pox.
BTW, you left out the reason that Israelis are claiming lower efficacy. Delta is apparently breaking through some vaccinated causing the efficacy to drop, though all of the observed breakthrough cases (think MA)have resulted in just a few hospitalizations, no intubation, and zero deaths.
Wrong. The delta variant has an R0 value of 6, chicken pox has one of 9. that’s 50% higher contagiousness for chickenpox. That info you’re citing was erroneously picked up by the CDC from… a NYT infographic. I kid you not: npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/11/1026190062/covid-delta-variant-transmission-cdc-chickenpox Kind of makes you question some of the policy decisions based on those CDC stats, huh?
How does a person who gets COVID, with the shot, not provide a vector for mutation? Have you heard of “leaky vaccine?” Or ADE? ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC
It isn’t the unvaxxed who are the only possible reason for mutation. Further, I keep seeing arguments that the vaccine prevents serious sickness, but also that if I happen to breathe on you in public, I will possibly, literally kill you. Just one time. Forgetting that those with the shot can also spread covid to the vaxxed and unvaxxed alike.
You must look at Israel, as they are the “gold standard” for vaccine data at 80% of eligible people vaccinated, yet hospitalizations, serious cases are over half vaxxed (59%), not just a few like you claimed. Israel is now administering boosters 8 months out from the original shot: sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta
You’re also wrong about zero deaths in “breakthrough” cases. I don’t even know where you got that idea. Death rates are lower for everyone now, for a multitude of reasons (not killing people with ventilators or sending the infected back into nursing homes is a great start), but I don’t even need a source to disprove your “zero deaths” claim.
What about people who have recently had covid? Must they get the shot, too? What if they show a strong antibody presence? Or is the shot merely a litmus test, an easy answer to a complex (and mercifully, increasingly less lethal) problem?
Speaking in absolutes is a great way to be wrong.
What possible difference does it make if it’s a visitor or a resident that choose to skip the vaccine and is now burdening the health care system Harvey? Really?? You’re trying to avoid the simple reality that the unvaccinated are filling the hospitals…..it doesn’t matter who they are.
If everyone that could got vaccinated did we would not be in this mess right now….there is no argument against that.
I get it, your paranoid….but why do you feel the need to drag others into your paranoia? You could literally convince someone not to get the vaccine with your tripe and they could die as a result.
“You’re trying to avoid the simple reality that the unvaccinated are filling the hospitals…..it doesn’t matter who they are.”
You don’t get to make up Fake News, when arguing against someone else’s point, just because you “think” it’s true. The unvaccinated are NOT “filling the Hospitals”. There’s no factual evidence to support your claim in any news that’s been reported, let alone news backed by factual support. There are over 2500 Licensed Acute Care Beds in the state of Hawaii (look it up). There are 308 Covid patients in Hospitals across the state, as of last Monday’s numbers, reported on from the Star Advertiser, and only 1/3 of the ICU beds are occupied by Covid patients. There’s roughly 340 ICU bed in the State (far too low for 1.4+ million people, but I digress). So that’s 113+/- people, John, and some of them have likely been there long term. There’s no confirmation on vaccinated vs unvaccinated, and at only 308 hospitalized cases, it makes your “simple reality” NOT a reality at all.
“As case counts climb, so do hospitalizations. Some 308 COVID-19 patients are hospitalized throughout the state, according to state data updated Monday. The last time COVID-19 hospitalizations in Hawaii topped 300 was on Sept. 8, when the islands saw a record 315 patients admitted. Statewide, 64% of ICU beds are occupied. About one-third of the occupied beds are COVID-19 patients. There are 52 COVID-19 patients on ventilators.”
staradvertiser.com/2021/08/17/hawaii-news/no-icu-beds-available-at-queens-medical-facilities-as-covid-cases-surge-in-hawaii/
“If everyone that could got vaccinated did we would not be in this mess right now….there is no argument against that.”
Again, prove it! There is always an argument when you can’t prove your claim. suggesting your claim can’t be argued against (because YOU say so) is utterly ridiculous. 🤣 If you have no facts, your statement is nothing but opinion, and deflection from actual fact.
I’ll go with what Hawaii News Now and the Star Advertiser are reporting. If you think that’s “fake news” that defines you, not them. If the Hospitals are full with Covid patients and turning away patients in some cases and as the Lt Gov among others have said…over 90 percent of the Covid patients are unvaccinated, it’s pretty easy for most to draw an accurate conclusion. What I don’t get is why the people that somehow think their rights are being infringed upon by vaccine mandates meant to protect people are the same people that want to argue so voraciously against it. It’s an individual choice so why try so hard to convince others when the core of your argument is it’s no one’s business but their own.
You don’t want it, don’t get it, but why try to convince others to risk their life too?
I directly quoted from the Star Advertiser. I gave the statistics from State data you could look up, as well as from the HSA article, and I included the LINK.
John… it’s a “risk” whether you take the experimental vaccine or not, since, by taking the vaccine, you have no clue if you may encounter future long term side affects, as hundreds of thousands have had them, and some have actually died. 😳🤷♂️
You’re right about one thing, “it’s an individual choice”,and I’ve never once suggested people not take it, BECAUSE (you got it) it’s an individual choice! 😳
I think New York has it right. Everyone hss choices. You want to go out to eat? Get vaccinated. You want to find gainful employment? Get vaccinated. Like to visit Hawaii? Get vaccinated.
Don’t want to do any of those things? Then don’t. No one is taking away your choices. But, your choices are affecting everyone else.
Vaccination passport. Let’s do it
…and for all the freedom loving anti-vaxers…two words: Stay Home!
Watch the cancelations ramp up….
Probably not worth going now. Nothing will be open. Resentment will be high.
All because Hawaiians refuse to vaccinate. We are supposed to go Sept 4th. Our return flight was cancelled already. Now we have to leave early.
So we are now canceling. Try again next year I guess. I’ll bet a lot of others will now do the same.
Hawaii’s vaccination rate is higher than about 90% of the states. So why you think its Hawaiian’s spreading the virus not tourists boggles the mind
The governor says last week that the cases traced to visitors is less than 5%. The majority of cases are returning residents to the state of Hawaii that have vacationed elsewhere and bring it back with them.
Sad….requiring proof of vaccination to visit Hawaii????? Utterly ridiculous! I’ll pass. Keep your islands…..good luck….. I hope ya’all go bankrupt.
There goes another compassionate American. “I can’t do what I want so hope you all fail”.
AMEN!
Stay home Angie R. Hawaii doesn’t welcome tourists like you. We will not go bankrupt. We will survive without you.
You definitely won’t make it without tourism, until your government gets their crap together and develops other potential income sources to replace your states predominant one. Maybe they should invite the Casino industry in? Obviously local residents spend a LOT of time in Las Vegas, a current hot bed for Covid, where many “locals” are returning from, after being cooped up for over a year.
By the lack of developing a better fiscal infrastructure, and being so heavily dependent on tourism, you do comprehend that people will die, because their lives will be crushed, right? It’ll only get worse as Hawaii continues to do nothing. Hawaii may not go bankrupt, but only because someone will end up bailing your irresponsible government out, and it’ll end up being all of the other 49 states paying for the lack of governmental planning that’s led to the utter stupidity in Hawaii. They made their bed by becoming dependent on tourism, and since this began they’ve been behind the 8 ball every..step..of..the..way. Your government is inept. Let’s just see how long you can last, when 30-40% of your state is unemployed, and so many are living in destitute conditions. Its criminal that the common folks have to pay for mismanagement.
I am 100% confident that people spreading Covid now, in Hawaii, are the majority who are opting to do “quarantine” or NOT having to test to go/get back there (I wonder who they are 🙄). People like me who do our due diligence and test every time are NOT the super spreaders in Hawaii. I’ve been there 3 (going on 4) times since all this crap started, so I know it isn’t people like me. And, I don’t want to hear crap about how “I should stay home”. I own property there, and I have a right to live there and handle my business. I pay my taxes there just like you do.
Yep
Thank you. You have been very informative. Just FYI if someone takes a test 72hrs prior, then go shopping or party and also at the airport full of people, within the time of test and arrival in Hawaii, they could have the virus. Makes no sense to have the test. It should be done prior to boarding and if positive then they can’t board. Just my opinion.
LYN H… Totally agree but can you imagine the chaos!?!?!?!?!
Dr. Green’s comments addressing the mob that shows up at his house hit a nerve with me. For a politician to raise the temperature, I’m sure he is just as pissed as I.
Let’s use a common public health acceptable public behavior. A smoker decides to ignore restaurant and public health rules, lights up and just to make the point directs an exhale at the table next to him. How long would it take for most people to recoil. The common answer in today’s world is my body, my choice. That argument is as shallow as the analogy of the smoker. The difference is that what the unvaccinated inhale and exhale doesn’t take years to have the desired effect. One encounter. That’s what it takes.
by the way I have zero problems with travelers who show respect. It’s just a sin to purposely cause harm when there is a moral alternative to selfishness.
My daughter isn’t vaccinated and will not be vaccinated. She is going to California to visit her Dad in a couple of weeks. If she can’t come back home because she’s not vaccinated, I am going to be one extremely unhappy Mama.
Then keep her at home.
An excellent example of the truth behind Dr. green’s and my comments.
beatofhawaii.com/hawaii-overload-new-rules-may-include-entrance-by-vaccination-only/comment-page-2/#comment-66532
Aloha,
Delta variant is actually showing up in equal amounts of people with the vaccine verses those without. It’s also transmitted via those with the vaccine. This information is from a report published by the CDC. Of course mainstream media isn’t dispersing this information, but it’s the truth. This vaccine might be reducing the severity of the delta variant of the virus but it’s certainly not stopping it. We need to stop politicizing this virus and be open and honest about what’s going on. We are not being told the truth. COVID is being used as a political pawn and it’s time we the people are being told the truth.
Mahalo
DAVID K… Please supply the url for the CDC report as I’d like to read that documentation myself. Mahalo.
cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm
Thank you for that David. The fact that we are not being told this and other facts by media corporations is a major disservice to the American public. People are generally rational and intelligent, but they can’t make well-informed decisions about their own health, much less policy, if they don’t have all of the relevant facts.
Those facts are being suppressed at several points, all because we’re deemed too stupid/selfish to handle them and make our own decisions (remember Fauci and the “masks don’t work” line designed to prevent panic buying, then back-track, then two masks [and maybe goggles!?] then no mask if shot, then yes, even with the shot?). It is the same as the misstatements that antibodies and T-cells don’t serve the same purpose as the vax or that they don’t last as long (they apparently protect the recovered for longer than the shot does).
Every post has a kernel of truth, but if you read the full MMWR, note the following excerpts:
“Overall, 274 (79%) vaccinated patients with breakthrough infection were symptomatic. Among five COVID-19 patients who were hospitalized, four were fully vaccinated; no deaths were reported.”
Indication: Confirmation that breakthrough infections still are milder in results than unvaccinated infections.
and this…
“Findings from this investigation suggest that even jurisdictions without substantial or high COVID-19 transmission might consider expanding prevention strategies, including masking in indoor public settings regardless of vaccination status, given the potential risk of infection during attendance at large public gatherings that include travelers from many areas with differing levels of transmission.”
Your next pronouncement is also erroneous:
“It is the same as the misstatements that antibodies and T-cells don’t serve the same purpose as the vax or that they don’t last as long (they apparently protect the recovered for longer than the shot does).”
This from recent NIH meta-research analysis:
“By closely examining the results, the researchers uncovered important differences between acquired immunity in people who’d been vaccinated and unvaccinated people who’d been previously infected with SARS-CoV-2. Specifically, antibodies elicited by the mRNA vaccine were more focused to the RBD compared to antibodies elicited by an infection, which more often targeted other portions of the spike protein. Importantly, the vaccine-elicited antibodies targeted a broader range of places on the RBD than those elicited by natural infection.”
Please be very careful about assumptions, especially those that are tainted by political bias.
Your source cites one “preprint”, (unpublished/not peer reviewed) study that is poorly designed and has a tiny sample size. It also makes a lot of assumptions about the mutation of the virus, discounts the superior non-RBD response of natural antibodies, and compares dissimilar time-frames between the vaccinated vs. unvaccinated subjects (allowing more time post infection antibody response testing for the unvaccinated subjects, of course). Careful with your assumptions which are based on non-peer reviewed studies (which themselves are subject to reaction, as the Lancet has provided ample proof in the past year and a half).
Thank you. I am puzzled by the claim that “breakthrough cases are rare among the vaccinated”. Does not appear that it was a rare occurrence in Provincetown in July 2021. In addition, at least five Texas state representatives who flew to DC became infected and they were all vaccinated, too. Once again, not “rare” by my definition. Just over the weekend, there was another story about vaccinated cruise ship passengers and employees who became infected with Covid-19.
For the record, I had Covid-19, am fully vaccinated and will get the booster as well as I expect it will be required when we travel to Hawaii next winter. But, I do feel like I am a pawn. When they lifted the mask requirement for vaccinated individuals, I believe this was more to entice the unvaccinated to get vaccinated. Apparently the CDC didn’t think that the unvaccinated would remain unvaccinated and just go unmasked. Now I feel like the vaccinated are being a pawn again as “breakthrough infections are rare” for the vaccinated. From the paper above and other reports in the media, breakthrough infections are not that rare. So are they rare or not? Is the media sensationalizing breakthrough infections or not?
Another thing that bothers me is the flip-flopping by the CDC/Dr. Fauci. I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person; at this point, I would rather hear, “We don’t know or we are studying that issue further and when we have more information, we will let you know”. The statements, “Covid-19 is not a threat to the U.S.”, “masks are not necessary”, “everyone should wear masks”, “stand 6 feet apart; no, should be 9 feet”, “if you’re vaccinated, no mask is required”, etc., just makes them lose credibility–which is another reason why some people won’t get vaccinated. I understand it is a novel virus. I am intelligent enough to know they don’t have all the answers. Maybe that’s just me; perhaps most are comforted to hear something, even if the information may not be that helpful.
Mary,
Science changes as they find new information. This is why you think Fauci has flip flopped or whatever. As scientists learn new things science changes. Fauci is a great man like him or not.
Please read my response to Harvey H when posted.
“Is the media sensationalizing breakthrough infections or not?”
Mary, the media has been sensationalizing virtually everything regarding this virus from the beginning. Controlled Chaos keeps the masses confused, and creates division, which in-turn keeps the masses from uniting. you do realize that they’ve been doing it for decades upon decades now, right?
As “science changes” (what a load of hog-wash that oxy-moron is) so does the “opinions” of half the scientific industry. It’s not science, at this point, it’s a guessing game. This WAS (and still is) an untested (Yes, we’re all guinea pigs) drug! This IS now proving what happens when a drug like this does not get the years of testing it should. It has become a circus with clowns stumbling around fumbling for answers telling some people what they want/need to here.
DAVID K… This is what I drew from that report… “First, data from this report are insufficient to draw conclusions about the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, including the Delta variant, during this outbreak.”
Ninety percent of the people consuming Hawaii’s already limited healthcare resources are unvaccinated, and they are loading up the system to the point trauma victims, heart attack victims, stroke victims aren’t able to get the care they may need to survive. The vaccinated can get infected and can transmit to others – but don’t themselves represent additional drains on Hawaii’s healthcare resources – that’s the issue, not whether the vaccinated can get the Delta variant and also transmit it. If the consequences of getting the Delta variant and transmitting it to others were like getting a bad cold or the seasonal flu for everyone, there would be no need for these kinds of controls and mitigations – that’s the only truth that matters here, deflections, conspiracy theories and insinuations aside.
I’m confused. Why would airlines servicing Hawaii let anyone on a flight to Hawaii if they either were not vaccinated or could not show proof of a negative test result prior to boarding? Either you show one or the other or you dont fly to HI; no excuses.
Agree!
it is illogical to not test everyone. vaccinated people spread it just as easily. been saying here this for months (as anybody who looks to REAL SCIENCE and not their television knew a long time ago)
the real science says if we were all vaccinated it wouldnt matter so get your damn shot already
Paul C, you keep smacking your gums, but have yet to show any of your own “real science”…get your damn facts together, and put up, or shut up already.
unlike yourself I dont claim to be a in the know scientist. I listen to the scientists, doctors etc. Your a small minority
agree!
Mahalo for your great magazine. Although travelers are a small part and residents are a large part many of them traveled to the mainland and brought it back. I rent my condo and I am only accepting vaccinated reservations. Strict rules need to be implemented with non residents vaccinated and a 3 day negative test and possibly one on arrival. Not vaccinated travelers should not be allowed on the islands. Islanders who are nonvaccinated and travel cannot return without having been vaccinated away or with a 3 day test before travel and one on arrival and then a 10 day monitored GPS quarantine. I am normally conservative but this virus is not going away. I believe it was engineered to mutate and become more and more contagious. Vaccination is a big plus but not a complete step in control and testing with vaccination is also not 100% but a much safer and higher percentage of protection.
Hi Mounque.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this complicated subject, and for your many comments.
Aloha.
Keep up the great job you guys are doing in keeping us in the loop with the changing COVID situation on the islands. ! Thanks so much!
Hi Kel.
Thanks. We appreciate your first time comment.
Aloha.
What a mess no one knows anything let’s stop pretending we do. I think people would be more open to the vaccine if there was some sort of standardization and fda approval. Second it makes no sense to require a vaccine on someone who has natural immunity. That just raises suspicion . Third science shows kids don’t need it but are getting it forced on them. Yet they say follow the science. Masks let’s not even go there. It just seems like it’s a just take it and deal with it approach is backfiring. Our so called leaders have been a disaster from top to bottom. Finally it would shock people to know how breakthrough cases are actually counted and what the definition is go to the cdc site and look. Doubt it’s what you thought.
Thank you for your common sense response. I wish more people would open their eyes to the truth rather than the fear mongering and Green’s rants.
I agree. I don’t trust anything that is being forced on me and frankly, I feel like we are being held hostage by this “virus”. Plus, how quickly people have forgotten 2019-2020 was the “deadlist flu season ever! Expecially for children.” That’s a real headline. We’re in a twilight zone.
Turn off your TV and start reading. Everything you said was false so maybe you are living in the twilight zone GG
If you are not vaccinated and do not have a legitimate medical reason for not getting the vaccine then you should NOT be admitted to any ICU. Go home and good luck. Leave the beds open and leave the businesses open to those intelligent enough to get vaccinated. It’s a no-brainer. Maybe set up army style camps for these unvaccinated people but don’t take up space for those who have suffered traumas.
A lot of Aloha in that comment!
you should see what he wants to do the obese and sedentary!
Just be glad this kind of person isn’t in a position of government, Jamie.
Mandate both proof of vaccination AND 72 hour test results! I live four months every year in Hawaii and eight months in Southern California. On my next trip over I might unwittingly be carrying the COVID variant asymptotically even though I’m fully vaccinated. Thus I should be required to spend the extra money and get pre-tested. I understand the argument for personal freedom, but a chain of islands with limited hospital care in the middle of the Pacific Ocean merits exceptional rules. Those who cannot get vaccinated will need to vacation somewhere else in the United States. I have a dear friend who is heartbroken because she can’t hold her baby grandson in New Zealand despite being fully vaccinated, but she totally understands the reasons for the constraints. We all need to do our part to reduce the spread of all current and upcoming COVID mutations.
It’s just as “unknown” how long the therapeutic effects of the jab lasts as well. This is NOT a true vaccine because it doesn’t stop or kill the virus, it’s a therapeutic shot that lessens the symptoms if you get Covid. There have been plenty of studies that show that people who have had Covid and have developed natural antibodies, that they still have antibodies up to a year later.
again please read science. There are no CURES 100% for anything.
Mandate???? A shot that has only received Emergency Usage Approval? This is America! Furthermore, if someone has had Covid and has developed natural antibodies, WHY should they be forced to take an experimental jab with unknown long term consequences? NO THANK YOU !!!!
well good luck in your basement because soon that is the only place you will be able to go without a vaccine. Mark my words
I’m still not sure why all the pro-shot people rush to this model of denying freedoms? If your shot works so well, why do you care about everyone else? Those without the shot should be a great thing for the struggling hospital sector, right? What about the kids under 12? Should they have to live in the basement, too? Where are those daily death toll counters from last year, anyway?
That’s way too much common sense for some to process, Harvey. The stupidity is real…
Common sense is understanding that once enough people are vaccinated this likely will stop maxing out the Hospitals and killing people, some who can’t get the shot, some who are victims of misinformation and didn’t get the shot , some who thought it was a chance worth taking and a very tiny few breakthrough cases. Common sense is knowing your risk of hospitalization or dying has diminished dramatically once vaccinated but since this is an ever evolving situation and everyone can only react to what is currently known, rules have to change. Common sense is knowing no man is an island and the choices we make can have a profound effect on those around us in situations like this.
Aloha
Common sense is understanding that this isn’t going to stop, because, at this point, there is no “magic pill” to take. Common sense is comprehending that many of those that are catching it now will develop antibodies, which will protect them better than any current vaccine can. Common sense is understanding that covid deaths have diminished regularly since the last major peak in January. Common sense is grasping that that it’s killing less people now, and knowing it’s likely not going to stop being a contributor to the death of those with comorbidities. Common sense is knowing that your risk of hospitalization is higher for multiple other factors that kill people at a far greater rate than Covid. Common sense is comprehending that if you have a 99.7% survival rate, the odds of you dying from covid have NOT “diminished drastically” by taking the covid vaccine. Common sense is knowin that a 0.3% chance to die doesn’t qualify as “drastic” at all. Common sense is knowing that every man can “choose” who they want to be, and who they have a profound effect on.
Common sense is definitely NOT mandating someone take a drug they do NOT want to take, just because you feel that society might be better off. Unfortunately, common sense is severely lacking in far too many these days, John.
JIm you didn’t counter anything I said as being wrong, you did take a softer version of what is essentially the “Covid isn’t as bad as they are saying” trope. The same one many of the conspiracy theorists use to get your attention, the same one Fox News used so aggressively back in early 2020 ( google heroes of the Pandumbic, it’s on YouTube )and the same one certain politicians are using to stir up and galvanize a segment of voters that they think they need rather then just being honest and doing what’s right.
There has been a lot of conspiracy driven denial behind the seriousness of Covid and a lot of people have died as a result. If we had all pulled together and did what we could do from the beginning we could have saved a lot of lives and lot of suffering.
John, if you read and understood what I said, you would see that I did counter your opinions that started with “Common sense is…”.
Let me simplify it for you…
You said, “Common sense is understanding that once enough people are vaccinated this likely will stop maxing out the Hospitals and killing people…”
While it may be true “that once enough people are vaccinated this likely will stop maxing out hospitals”, it’s 100% False that “once enough people are vaccinated this will likely stop…killing people”, which is the second half of what you think is common sense. A partially correct opinion is not common sense…it’s actually nonsense.
You said. “Common sense is knowing your risk of hospitalization or dying has diminished dramatically once vaccinated…”
I said, “Common sense is comprehending that if you have a 99.7% survival rate, the odds of you dying from covid have NOT “diminished drastically” (just) by taking the covid vaccine.” and I said, “Common sense is knowing that a 0.3% chance to die doesn’t qualify as “drastic” at all.”…I indirectly called you out for dramatizing your statement with “descriptive” words that actually do NOT make your opinion correct. It’s definitely not common sense.
You said, “Common sense is knowing no man is an island and the choices we make can have a profound effect on those around us…”
I said, “Common sense is knowing that every man can “choose” who they want to be, and who they have a profound effect on.”…there is always a choice, to maintain a safe social distance, wash your nasty hands after using the restroom, wear a mask when not able to stay a safe distance, and stay home when you’re sick…among other responsible things that don’t require taking a drug to appease people like you, some of whom want to force others to do so.
What I did NOT do is deflect with nonsensical diatribe, of who I think you are, and what I think you derive your sources from, as you have done now. 🤷♂️
This might help:
This from recent NIH meta-research analysis:
“By closely examining the results, the researchers uncovered important differences between acquired immunity in people who’d been vaccinated and unvaccinated people who’d been previously infected with SARS-CoV-2. Specifically, antibodies elicited by the mRNA vaccine were more focused to the RBD compared to antibodies elicited by an infection, which more often targeted other portions of the spike protein. Importantly, the vaccine-elicited antibodies targeted a broader range of places on the RBD than those elicited by natural infection.”
Please be very careful about assumptions, especially those that are tainted by political bias.
Test ALL before traveling to Hawaii … even the locals who get to ” quarantine “ once home. You know they aren’t !
I know several “locals” that HAVE quarantined at home after returning to Kauai and had daily visits by the National Guard to ensure that they were doing so. So, how do YOU KNOW that they aren’t?
Goldie,
Even if the people you know did quarantine, it does not mean they can’t pass it to a family member, who drop by to deliver food, or comes to visit (common on the islands) that are not quarantined.
I’m 100% certain you did not monitor all of the people that you say you know quarantined (for that 10 day period). How many of them would tell you if they did NOT quarantine for the entire time, if they didn’t?
Since you do not know all 1.4+ million locals, you really don’t know 99.9% of those that traveled, or if they are or aren’t quarantining. The statistics prove that locals are the major issue of spreading the virus in Hawaii, by a high percentage. It’s not hard to put 2 & 2 together to determine that those that did not test, and chose to quarantine are part of the problem.
The current outbreak in Hawaii is a direct result of allowing “untested” people to get on a plane to Hawaii and not quarantine, and whether they’ve been vaccinated or not is pretty much irrelevant, no matter how much people want to blame the unvaccinated.
It’s just another way to keep people divided, and keep them focused on something other than seeking the truth behind this virus.
I am in BC. I received one dose of Pfizer and one of Moderna because that is what I was given. No choice. Will Hawaii consider me to be vaccinated or should I try to get a second dose of one of those? I may not be able to. We cannot buy our vaccine doses. The health authority decides.
The freedom to choose to take the drug, and can’t get it properly, because your government decides for you which one you’re going to get. I feel sorry for you, Mela.
I am still trying to find out the rules for someone who had Covid and is fine now. He would have the immunity and instructed by his PCP that he doesn’t need the vaccine. I on the other hand, had both of my vaccines despite having the antibodies (natural immunity) prior to getting the vaccines. I have my card but have no idea how to use the “Vaccine Passport”. We want to visit our friends (I used to live on Oahu) who are like family.
I can’t believe his PCP recommended not getting vaccinated. It is unknown how long immunity from having COVID lasts, and it does not provide protection against variants. I suggest getting a second opinion.
You can obtain an exemption if your recovery is within 90 days. As of now I believe
I believe that the vaccine provides a better defense against the newer variants than the immunity that one might have developed from having an earlier version of Coved. I don’t think that, as of now, there is a US Government or State of Hawaii recognized Vaccine Passport.
How can the “vaccines” protect better against the new variants than the natural antibodies from a recovered infection? Hell, the person could have recovered from a delta or lambda infection, while the shots we have were all developed using the alpha version. This is totally illogical and the kind of thinking that is the foundation of bad policy decisions. I get that most people don’t have a lot of time to devote to thinking about this, but that assumption is intuitively and scientifically wrong.
“I get that most people don’t have a lot of time to devote to thinking about this, but that assumption is intuitively and scientifically wrong.”
This might help correct your interpretation:
(from CDC) “Moderna’s and Pfizer’s current two-dose vaccine provide effective protection against all known variants of COVID-19, including the delta variant, according to ongoing studies and self-reported statistics. But Pfizer announced in July that a third dose of its vaccine is currently under development. The company said its own research showed a booster shot of its current vaccine increased antibody levels five to 10 times higher over its two-dose shots, noting that its results haven’t been published or peer-reviewed. This week, Pfizer submitted data to the FDA to receive approval for a booster shot.”
Before posting ill-informed opinions, this story is constantly evolving and worth “a lot of time to devote to thinking about this.”
Please reread my comment. I challenged the assumption that vaccines developed last year would protect against a variant better than antibodies developed after recovery from that variant. I M not aware of any studies that support that notion. You have to parse every word in these claims, as they’re often designed to be factually accurate, but not necessarily designed to leave an accurate impression.
go ahead and take your chances. I am choosing to be safe. I will get any updated vaccine they provide because I like to live
Thanks Paul, will do. I hope our personal decisions work out for both of us!
We’ll see if over the next decade or more, if you’re “safe” at all, Paul C.
I hope you are, but if you have side affects that have developed, don’t hesitate to let us know you made a mistake, okay?
God forbid you get maimed or die from a side affect, like some people have already. Bud. That would be horrible!
I presume you’ve gotten vaccinated for other things? I’ve gotten no long term effects of any of those and science is so much more advanced now than 40 years ago so I’ll trust the science of this.
PaulC,
I haven’t taken the Flu shot in over 25 years, and I haven’t had a flu in this century. Why do you think that is? Hmmm…I don’t know, maybe it’s because I give my body the supplements and nutrients it needs to avoid viruses? Or, hmmm, maybe I am just naturally immune? Better yet, maybe I’m a Super Hero?! 🤷♂️
There’s a huge difference between taking a drug that’s been proven over the course of decades (or the better part of a century), than taking a drug that hasn’t been approved by the LEGAL process, and is NOW being used as Test on the entire World’s population…not to mention with blanket legal immunity given to its creators. Why on God’s green earth would you think it’s logical to compare “apples and oranges”? 🤦♂️
You go ahead and be the Guinea pig, Buddy, because that’s YOUR choice. MY choice is to watch, wait and see if there are more short term or potentially long term side affects…and, whether this drug continues to debilitate, cripple, or kill more people. They still have zero, nada, NO clue why it’s doing these things to some people to begin with. I choose not to play Russian roulette with a ginormous barrel, when my odds of survival are better than 99.9X% for my health and age bracket. I’ll wait until it’s better tested, and it appears that over half the Country (at this point) agrees.
I honestly hope, for your sake, none of that happens to you. But, the fact IS that’s been happening and is happening right now to some people (and I don’t care how small of a percentage). Still, they’ve continued pushing this drug out by incentivizing (some call it bribing) people to take it, and because over half the population won’t, NOW they’re trying to force the issue by (potentially) locking down those that won’t.
It’s truly Sad they’ve convinced people like you to push their (now your) ideology on others who 100% agree that this ideology is NOT at logically sound. It is not only ethically wrong to push, it’s morally inept.
Jim, Just because you have not gotten sick means nothing. Your lucky is all. But hey enjoy your life as I will. I choose to be safe, believe in science and protecting others.
People still be able to show proof of vaccine in September and October
Thank you
Please, when is our governor going to wake up. Visitors are not required to be tested or show proof of vaccination before boarding the plane, if they test positive on arrival they are sent back. Result, 2 planeloads exposed. Let’s not wait till the horse is out before we close the barn door. Protect the citizens of HI.
the dramatic rise in cases was shortly after they lifted the testing for all travelers
its getting tires to see anti-science pushers like ige and green demonizing the unvaccinated travelers, when its clearly the vaccinated travelers driving the surge
test all or test none
In the case of your numerous, erroneous conclusions, I would say that your BS degree is not a Bachelor of Science. The unvaccinated carry an extremely elevated risk of not only transmission but adding a hospital visit to already overwhelmed medical systems.
The vaccine requirement to enter Hawaii won’t withstand legal scrutiny. Hawaii is a state, not a sovereign country and cannot restrict entry to US citizens no matter how much they would like to.
Actually, I would propose the opposite. When the US notes surges, it should ban travel to those states as a public health preventative. Go to FL or TX now and a good bet that you’ll be traveling with CV-19.
Your ability to choose to be vaccinated is secure. You’re ability to choose your outcome? Not so much. Those responsible for rising infections are also part of the problem which keeps Hawaii from getting back to as close as normal as possible as soon as possible.
Fact is Hawaii won’t get this behind her until all cases are managed.
Hope 2023 is a good year for Hawaii, but it’s not looking like it.
From what I gather the problem is locals and locals returning from the mainland not the tourists. If they implement the vaccination mandate (which I think they should) it must apply to locals: If a local is not vaccinated when they leave the islands, they can’t return until they are vaccinated. Tough love.
We just returned from Iceland and if you didn’t have a 72 hour COVID test and a vaccination certificate or proof you had recovered from COVID you couldn’t get on the airplane. Hawaii should follow the same procedure.
Mahalo for always giving me something to think about. I believe we should go back to pre-testing for all. They need to make a decision now as Ige would need time for the implementation for people traveling soon. In the mean time our numbers will grow and our hospitals and the exhausted and overwhelmed workers at our hospitals will suffer from inaction.
This virus is such a big mess for all human beings!! So so so many unnecessary deaths😥
What about giving tests to locals traveling to the mainland.
Here is the proof, the vaccine helps by reducing the severity of covid or not getting it at all. I can remember in the 60s we took polio sugar cubes to prevent polio. When was the last time we heard of a polio outbreak. I respect your decision to not get the vaccine, your body, your decision, but think of others that you may come in contact with. You may feel fine, but you may be spreading covid and not know it. I don’t like it at all either, but I want to keep healthy and not windup in ICU, when someone else could use the ICU bed due to other medical issues.
I respect your decision to get the vaccine, your body, your decision, but think of others that you may come in contact with. You may feel fine, but you may be spreading covid and not know it. you need to be tested the same as anyone else, since it is common knowledge that vaccianted people get and spread covid at similar order of magnitude
Well said, Jamie. People forget that anybody can spread COVID.
lol, Harvey, forget? More like they conveniently leave it out, because it doesn’t fit the narrative. If you don’t know by now, the vaccinated can and do catch and transmit Covid.
MarkR,
The Polio vaccine was actually a preventative vaccine that keeps you from getting it, kind of a reverse cure, and these Covid vaccines have literally zero comparison (at this point), since the vaccinated CAN still contract and pass along the virus. Poor example to uses as your “Proof”.
Well Jim, The bottom line is these vaccines greatly increase your chance chance of survival and comparisons to the Polio vaccine really doesn’t mean much either way…….and yes you can spread the Delta variant after being vaccinated but you are less likely to. This is a continually evolving situation and just doing everything we know that helps is the only thing we can do. Get vaccinated and wear a good mask correctly when appropriate. Then get on with your life and don’t be paranoid. If this hadn’t been politicized through the adept use of conspiracy theories a lot of lives would have been saved and we would be much closer to the light at the end of the tunnel. Plan for the worst and hope for the best, it’s just common sense.
Well John, the bottom line is these vaccines do NOT “greatly” increase my chance of survival, when the survival for my health and age bracket is better than 99.9%. I can actually do the math and follow the science appropriately. My educational background allows me to know how to calculate odds, based on more than just global numbers, and what some random “john” (on a Travel Blog) believes he knows about this virus.
🙄 I definitely don’t need you to preach from an online bully pulpit about what you think I should do with my health/life. I’m a grown man, and I know how to protect myself, and those around me. You don’t know me, don’t pretend like you do. To infer that I would be paranoid, or buy into conspiracy crap only proves my previous point. I’ve likely traveled far more than you over the last year and a half, and I’ve avoided contracting any variant, because I take care of myself, as well those I love, and those I may not know, who end up around me.
As you say, this is a “continually evolving situation”, and you really don’t know “everything that helps” (like you may believe you do). The reality is that what you think helps today may not be the correct help tomorrow, so you really should stop acting like (or believing) you know what’s best for those you are clueless about. I’m also going to recommend that you stop trying to impart “common sense”, because you’ve already proven that’s not really your cup of tea.
Good Luck! 🤙
Disordered minds going on vacation during a pandemic that is showing cases going parabolic.
I’ll wait another year and just visit my national parks here in California.
I really do hope Hawaii is able to come out of this without becoming super expensive but most of all I hope that people there can go back to living like before once things clear up 🙏🏽
I do agree with the Lt Governor, that there is no need to demonstrate at this home. We all can demonstrate not matter your position at locations designated for such activity. Demonstrations performed in an orderly fashion at such locations as the capital is a legal right as citizens of our GREAT country.
Personally, I am still not convinced of the statistics on Covid since it’s inception. Seems there is enough scare tactics to persuade people to agree to take vaccinations. Promotes fear, anger, stress and most likely hospitalization (both vaccinated and unvaccinated). What is the predominant age group of those in ICU? Be curious. Factual only please.
The choice needs to be left up to we the citizens and not the government, CDC nor the WHO. There is predominantly a huge voice through media that leans in favor of mandatory vaccine. I for one do not wish to be told what to do in my decisions nor should anyone else…for or against. Lockdowns is once again another scare tactic to keep people in a state of confusion. Plus what about businesses’ and employees. Are we to believe that the government will once again doll out money that we don’t have and keep doing till doomsday? Sure hope not.
The vaccinations haven’t even been approved through FDA yet our country’s decision makers prefer to push it through at any cost and have been doing it far too long. What if the conclusion by FDA is inconclusive…THEN WHAT?
Lt Governor, I must respectfully say that we who are not in favor do not demonstrate in a “party” fashion, far from it. Rather we fight, within legal means, for our rights as Americans and respect those are choose to vaccinate as well. Please understand, I do not believe in the media propaganda on covid and Vaccination theories without even testing in laboratories. What’s going on…truly?
I love my home, Hawaii & I love & honor our country & all its citizens and those who sacrificed their lives to protect it…ALL are created equal in the site of God!
Dear John C, I’m on the fence about coming to Oahu in April(2022). It has always been my dream to come to Hawaii for my vacation🐢🐠🌺🍍🥥🌍🏖🏝🛩🌈🌊 With all the cases going up I’m concerned about that. My Grandfather was in the Navy & in Pearl Harbor. I’ve always wanted to pay my respects there & PH is #1 on my itinerary! I may postpone trip until 2023 & I want to be safe. I’m getting very excited for whenever I do get to come to your beautiful 🏝!! I will be the most respectful visitor you will ever get! Stay safe 🙏 Be blessed….psalms 91:11😍
Hmmm.. restrictions, wide spread mask use, kids masked in school, vaccine passport, 72 pre arrival test, 10 people indoors, 50% capacity ( which dye to 6ft has been pretty standard the whole time)
End result… outbreaks in schools, packed hospitals….
Someday some of you will wake up to the fact the Government mandates do nothing. Either live free or live restricted with the same basic end result.
It’s hard to understand how 600k+ deaths (even after draconian lock down measures, forced social distancing, etc) and the near destruction of businesses, families, mental health, etc don’t warrant the loss of some of your personal freedom and choice. Why would someone need more than that to ‘scare’ you and at what point does the conversation extend beyond your personal choice into what’s needed for communal benefit? Your body, your choice shouldn’t mean the right to infect others, create breeding grounds for new variants and prolong this pandemic unnecessarily, when we have the means (vaccines) to end it. At some point, accept that seat belts save lives (regardless of your personal choice), speed limits, gun control, and laws against defecating in water fountains, again, regardless of your personal choice, protects the health and safety of the community in which you reside. Grow up and start thinking about more than yourself or we will NEVER get out of this.
We WILL endure, and persevere through this, just like we have for EVERY other human disease/virus in the last oh, umm, FOREVER.
Eventually herd immunity will take hold, and they’ll find another way to keep us divided, keep some of you grasping on to their fear mongering tactics, with your “we’re all gonna die tomorrow” pleadings, if we don’t do what you/they believe is right. Eventually they’ll have more of you mind-banged with this poppycock garbage that we need to give up our personal liberties to appease the majority (who, for the record, are NOT the majority at this point).
Guess what? You’re going to DIE…we’re ALL going to die! You don’t get to force someone to stay home, because you want to be able to justify your ability to roam freely spreading this disease amongst vaccinated people, so that a family member who is vaccinated can bring it home to one who isn’t, because they’re couped up by force.
You still have the right to sit home, and live in fear, or choose where you want (or do not want) to go, “for now”. The ignorant idea that pressuring or forcing people to do something against their will, or not be able to travel freely, is the exact opposite of the foundation of individual liberty…and, all under the guise of “you ‘may’ get others sick” and potentially die. 🤮
You’ve probably already killed someone from that bad flu you transmitted years ago, that went through thousands of people within your “Six Degrees of Separation”.
You don’t get to claim a moral justification, when you have no moral ground to stand on. This is a pretty BIG world. Those who keep pushing this warped ideology, just go avoid people and get over your “wannabe” self-righteous indignation.
This is really a shame. Hawaii was one of the only states that had a handle on covid. We were there in may and followed all restrictions. Wishing all health care providers health and energy to provide the care needed.
It would seem that testing Residents returning to the islands or inter-island would be advisable, given that Las Vegas is a favorite location and a covid hotspot. Saying this is based on previous comments that the current spread is community based.
I’d also test visitors as some seem to think it’s ok to travel even when they know they are positive because they don’t feel sick. That puts all travelers at risk.
On a visit this past late April, it was disconcerting to hear a resort worker say she was going to wait to get the vaccine – even though her son’s sports coaches had contracted covid on a trip + the kids + families had to be tested. Why do people wait???
I’d rather test and feel safer on my Dec trip. And apparently it’s not the tourists to blame for the surge at this time.
Aloha. Can I ask what the vaccination rate is in Hawaii? Is there a vaccine supy issue, or a reluctance to get vaccinated? Is there a logistical complication getting people vaccinated? It seems if the vaccine prevents most vaccinated people from being hospitalized, then why are there so many unvaccinated in the hospital? Is it a lie vaccinated rate there? So sorry to hear about the challenges. Best to all.
*low not lie* regarding vaccination rate question, thanks
FYI – the Vault test kits have a shelf life of two years so if you ordered one and then didn’t need to use it because you were vaccinated, you’re good to go until somewhere in 2023!
So pick up the phone and call Washington to get the president to send over the west coast based Navy hospital ship to Hawaii! What the heck are you waiting for IF things are actually as bad as you say they are!!?
Ongoing changes. Grateful for the news that you share! Have plans to go to Kauai 10/8 and then on to Maui to visit family on 10/11. Any idea what the parameters are for inter-island travel? Or where would be the best source to find that out? My brother and two of my nephews (ages 10 & 13) that live on Maui are planning to meet us in Kauai for the weekend. Any info is appreciated!
Hi Paula.
There are no COVID-related requirements for interisland travel at this time.
Aloha.
Oh that is great news! My mom and I are both vaccinated coming from CA so we shouldn’t have any additional requirements to travel to Maui from Kauai? Obviously understand that things COULD change before October…
Continue demonstrating in front of his house. People might die but this is America. A little thing called freedom. Yea it is terrible, but the world has always been a dangerous place. We dont shut down when things are bad, people are supposed to come together and make the most out of life.
Hawaii will never have a large reduction of people, as its vastly overcrowded now. People are paying attention to government abuse of power in la, San Francisco and hawaii
CF… Oh, what I would like to say to you right now but I don’t want to be kicked off this blog!
Once again – I have no problem with getting tested as long as they don’t restrict it to the “Trusted Partner” routine! That’s where it failed for us – thank goodness we are vaccinated (and anticipate having a booster by next trip as well) – but getting Rapid Results was going to require a 7 hour drive out of state! (Glad I kept our Vault tests!)
As long as it’s reciprocal, I’ve got no problem with a vaccine mandate.