Last week a group of Hawaiian Airlines’ employees, including pilots, filed what is likely to become a class-action lawsuit in Honolulu federal court, demanding that the airline stop terminating or placing on unpaid leave employees who seek exemption from vaccination requirements based on medical or religious grounds.
Hawaiian Airlines said that just under 300 employees or less than 5% of their 6k+ member staff are involved in any vaccination dispute. The group of employees had previously either opted to sever their relationship with the bellwether carrier or take an unpaid leave of absence.
“96% of our 6,600-plus U.S.-based teammates are immunized, and a limited number of employees received reasonable accommodations. We know that our vaccine requirement has been a challenging topic, but we have a responsibility to our fellow teammates, guests, and communities to keep each other safe – and vaccines are the most effective protection against the virus.” — Hawaiian Airlines.
Those plaintiffs named in the lawsuit to date include two pilots, Robert Espinosa and Ronald Lum, together with flight attendants Riki O’Hailpin and Nina Arizumi, and others.
The lawsuit alleges that Hawaiian violated the Civil Rights Act and the Americans with Disabilities Act, failed to engage in an interactive religious accommodation process and tried to stop the plaintiffs from asserting their religious beliefs, and further did not provide medical accommodations for three of the plaintiffs who claim they have disabilities that prevent the possibility of vaccination.
Pilots Ronald Lum said that he has coronary disease and that if “I were to take this vaccine, I would be putting my life on the line.” Pilot Espinosa, who is also a Hawaii minister, said “As a disciple of Christ and an ordained Pastor, I cannot do anything that violates the will of God or goes against His Word. It would therefore be a violation of my conscience (and God’s direction for my life) to take the vaccine. Taking the vaccine is something that cannot be undone and would be an unrecoverable violation of my faith in the Lord.”
Meanwhile, the ACLU has said this: “Vaccines are a justifiable intrusion on autonomy and bodily integrity. That may sound ominous because we all have the fundamental right to bodily integrity and to make our own health care decisions. But these rights are not absolute. They do not include the right to inflict harm on others.”
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We are not in a crisis stemming from the manner of Coronavirus.
We are in a crisis because of the manner in which we each have allowed Coronavirus to alter our critical thinking, our lives, our care for other beings, and our common sense.
At the end state, the greatest of harm will be attributable to our own hands.
“Danger takes from a man all power of thought”
― Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Hermann und Dorothea
I can definitely see both sides of this issue. However, since passengers are basically necessitated to take the vaccine, it seems employees should do the same to protect us.
You do not have to be vaccinated to board an airplane as a passenger and fly in the US. This is not now nor has it ever been a rule with any US based airline. I cannot speak for other countries.
It certainly is the case here in Canada. We also have masking in all indoor public places and covid passports for places like restaurants, theaters, liqour stores, cannabis shops etc.
Do we really care? That’s an internal issue within the airline.
Um, I’m not comfortable with a pilot having coronary issues.
A lot of comments in this thread are very subjective. If one person experienced mild symptoms it not a forgone conclusion that everyone else will as well. My dear friend, a nurse working in the COVID ward, called to say she “bagged” her 6th patient by the end of her shift today. These recent ones were unvaccinated. In a whispery voice she admitted that she “just can’t take this much longer”. I expect she’ll quit her job soon.
There’s no reason to force this vaccine. It only protects those that are vaccinated. Vaccinated people still transmit the virus so it shouldn’t matter if you’re vaccinated or not. Don’t force it on the airline employees!
Fortunately airline employee’s are held to a higher standard then the general public. Safety is critically the number one focus, and for that reason air travel is very safe.
A vaccinated employee group is safer then an unvaccinated one.
Employee’s that think they know better undermine the safety culture just like soldiers that think what they read on Facebook justifies disobeying orders.
We would not be here today if it were not for the unvaccinated. We have new variants because of this and who knows what other type of variants there will be. This information coming from immunologist.
I’m a Christian #1, and a Licensed Hawaii M.D. #2. I don’t think that any pilot with known coronary artery disease should be flying passenger planes, or any planes. It’s stressful enough already; the thought of one trying to fly a plane, if they were to have a heart attack while doing so, is not a safe practice, to say the least.
That old saw, “If God had meant for man to fly, he would have given him wings” comes to mind. It has been a long time since I cracked open a bible, but I don’t recall any mention of vaccinations. I do remember a lot about caring for others, though. To be fair, I did just skim a lot of it.
I’m vaccinated but I don’t believe in forcing people to be vaccinated for Covid, flu, or anything else. It’s their personal business. I don’t hold them responsible for my health. All I care about from my pilot is if s/he can fly. My body, my choice, right? Or is that argument only for other situations? At least be consistent. I’ll gladly fly Hawaiian and I’m behind these employees’ rights 100%.
Next week, I will be on an airplane for several hours, and I would like to know my crew is vaccinated.If it affects others, it is not “personal business”. And yes, “My body, my choice” is for other situations where “my choice” only affects your body, and does not affect my or anyone else’s body or health.
But the “my body my choice” argument actually does effect someone else as the DNA is different than the body carrying it. So that argument is moot. Regardless, what does it matter if the flight attendants or pilot are vaccinated when the virus doesn’t care if your vaccinated or not, it’s coming for you and everyone can still spread it. Just because it personally gives you “piece of mind” doesn’t make it right to force someone to do something against their will.
I don’t have that choice if I want to get on a plane why should they? Nobody is forcing them they have the choice. And this nobody should be forced to do something against their will nonsense. It is now a condition of employment like safety training or first aid. I don’t want to wear pants or wear a seatbelt is that OK?
The seatbelt protects you, and you alone. That is a choice you make to protect your OWN life. Just like the vaccine is a choice you make to protect your OWN life. Now everyone is being told what is best for their own bodies and health by the government and then enforced by their employer, and half the country thinks this is ok. Crazy town.
Exactly! The vaccine only protects the one vaccinated!!! It has nothing to do with others. Stop the mandates!
SD,
Science is a book on established incontrovertible facts. Somewhere in the book of science (published by CNN) is that a person’s shots don’t work unless everyone else gets their own shots. That pilot behind the cockpit door?? – His lack of shots renders ineffective the past, present and future shots of all passengers. You need to Science harder. Follow it on Twitter.
Here is a reference that shows both vaccinated and unvaccinated people can transfer the virus to others. There appears to be no increase in the viral load in each. So, with this said, people should have the choice of getting or not getting vaccinated. The vaccine has been proven to decrease the severity of the disease only in the person who has been vaccinated. Please red this article:
ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-similar-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people
The problem with my body my choice is this a pandemic people. The unvaccinated are completely responsible for all of this. When you don’t vaccinate and people keep getting sick then variants mutate. This variant would not have happened if most would have gotten vaccinated. You also need to remember the immunosuppressive community. They have no choice. They have already had to stay in doors because of this pandemic because it could literally kill them. This comes from an immunologist
From your statements, the only way for variants not to occur is if the entire world would have been vaccinated all at once, at the very same time. That actually may be true if the vaccines were 100% effective, which we know is not the case with COVID vaccines. As a virus replicates, or makes copies of itself, it is normal for small changes, or “mutations,” to occur. It is therefore inevitable that variants will occur.
Not flying Hawaiian with pilots like this one.
Kathryn, check out US Freedom Flyers…You won’t want to fly on any airline.
Hawaiian has fewer of these types then many other airlines. AA and SWA seem to lead the pack in putting politics over professionalism, but even there it’s a minority of the pilots. Back in Oct the pilot unions at those carriers issued a warning that vaccine conflicts amongst the flight crews was effecting their professionalism.
We have witnessed:
If you question the efficacy of masks, you don’t care whether vulnerable elderly citizens die. If you challenge school lockdowns, you want teachers to become sick and suffer. If you question the COVID vaccines because of your God, you are a radical anti-vaxxer.
The fact is viruses don’t care about your religion, morality, or self assurances.
“It is the certainty that they possess the truth that makes men cruel.”
― Anatole France
When you take on the responsibility of being an airline pilot it means you have to follow rules and meet certain medical requirements. The personal freedom argument is weak here. Religion and “I did the research” even worse since the antivax argument depends primarily on proven misinformation. Pilots are supposed to have the judgement to figure that out…and the professionalism to rise above politics when in the cockpit.
I have no problem with Hawaiian pilot’s not being vaccinated as long as they hear N95 masks when they are not in the cockpit.
In the United States only Christian Science Church Dutch Reformed Church prohibit vaccinations. The Muslim Religion prohibits vaccinations because they are derived from pork-derived products. However, Islam in the United States, for the most part, has not opposed vaccination under the principle of necessity, meaning that vaccines are necessary for health.
For the record, Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson do NOT contain gelatin, pork or any other animal pork products. I don’t know if links are allowed here, but it is easily verifiable by googling.
You’re right. Animal products haven’t been used in vaccines for decades. Just more misinformation.
Thank you for the clarification. My point is that very few people can justifiably claim a religious exemption to vaccinations, including Islam.
Reminds me of the former UH coach that went to UW and refused to be vaccinated because he was a Catholic…yet the Pope declared the Covid Vaccine’s a gift from God because of the lives they have saved. I think the whole religious exemption thing is being terribly abused.
The ACLU is not what it was. Just another proggie authoritarian org these days. FWIW, I do not view unvaccinated people as “inflicting harm” on me. That narrative is starting to crack. I blame vaccinated, since that’s who we got it a week ago. Was like a standard cold, still have a little lingering cough, but that’s it.
Speaking of shots, any coconut wireless update on whether Ige will require a third shot to avoid quarantine? We arrive on the 28th.
Hi David.
Feel better! Yes he will require it, we just don’t know when.
Aloha.
Thanks. I’ve had way worse flu and colds in my life. Just the timing sucks since we are still 18 days away. Don’t want our green qr code to be revoked at a time when we don’t want and certainly don’t need any more shots.
Lucky you did catch off vaccinated. Much lower viral load than unvaccinated. Probably why you had a mild case. So say thankyou to vaxxed.
Peter…my whole family had it. Mild headache and lost our taste and smell. That’s it. No vaccine and we’ve been exposed several times since and haven’t been sick. But we are extremely healthy, exercise, take vitamins and supplements daily, meditate to keep our minds healthy, don’t watch the news, and eat a healthy diet. I’ve had colds that have knocked me out for weeks, Covid was not even close.
Sonja, I’m missing something in your perspective? We all know Covid (not as much Omicron, especially if you are vaccinated) is like Russian Roulette. Some people do well, some don’t. You were fortunate (and your healthy lifestyle was certainly a factor) but some people aren’t. Do they deserve less? I don’t get the “I’m OK what’s wrong with you perspective”?
Then you are very lucky, unlike the 800000 plus in your country who were killed by this virus. I know you don’t watch the news so hope this doesn’t come as a shock.
Peter, let’s rephrase that. I am lucky like the 16 million plus in the US have recovered from Covid. Lets stop looking at deaths, as it has now come out that 75% had at least 4 comorbidities, and lets start focusing on what health should actually be, and vaccines are not the end all be all.
Sonja, I agree that a healthy lifestyle is certainly a good deterrent to the virus, however it’s unrealistic to think you could change everyone’s habits in time to do any good. . A vaccination shot is a very safe and even more effective way to save lives and look how hard it is to convince some people of that. Appreciate your good fortune but have empathy for those not so lucky. For many a vaccination is the best way to protect themselves.
Yes, Peter. It’s not possible that I had a very mild case because … I had a very mild case. Nope. Has to be whether the person I caught it from had their shots. And, our shots were 9 months old at the time, so we were supposed to die horrible deaths – Am I Right?? Sorry.
So many of you have gone full in on the “my shots don’t work unless you get shots” and “I got more shots so you need to get more shots or else my additional shots wont work” narrative.
Viral load has not been shown to be higher in the unvaccinated than the vaccinated. See my link which I posted yesterday from the U of Davis about this study. There are a myriad of other factors involved with the viral load other than vaccination. This is not to lessen the fact that we are in a pandemic and that it has wrecked havoc with peoples lives and caused deaths.
“ I do not view unvaccinated people as ‘inflicting harm’ on me. That narrative is starting to crack. I blame vaccinated…”. Now that’s funny. As to boosters, the State of Hawaii has changed its description of fully vaccinated to two shots and a booster. This doesn’t, as far as I know, pertain to quarantine cases but does prevent those not fully vaccinated from entering public health establishments such as restaurants, bars and gyms.
The risk of heart problems in people with an underlying cardiac condition, according to bona fide medical studies is about 1 in 6,000 or .00017%. The risk of serious illness or death among cardio patients from a Covid-19 infection is 2%-10% or about 12,000 more than result from a Covid vaccination. If these people were truly concerned for their health they would run to the nearest vaccination provider. Could there be a non-medical reason for their lawsuit?
i have the same coronary problem as pilot LUM with the vacine including booster i have not had
a problem. how come he is a pilot with coronary disease let what flight he is flying and we will avoid it
Flight crew are in the business of risk management and safety is always supposed to be the number one priority of any decision made. I don’t think compromising safety for religious reasons is ever acceptable.
Thank you for this update. Perhaps Ronald Lum should get on the intercom each flight and inform his passengers that he is unvaccinated AND that he has coronary disease. Let’s se how that “flies”! Hopefully, God is his co-pilot!
Would fly with me, although if he’s due for a heart attack, that would be way worse than COVID.
Does that also mean the don’t eat processed cheese or SPAM? asking for a friend
Obviously these so called religious people don’t believe in the betterment of all. So sick of this.
Perhaps his coronary disease should no longer allow him to fly 1000’s of people a month on Hawaiian Airlines, and the minister should learn what his religion says about (flat out) telling lies.
I think the problem is they don’t think the vaccine assures a betterment.
I generally believe in vaccinations but I have to question those interpreting the so called science.
First it was the shot was a preventative. When that was proven wrong it became you couldn’t pass it on. That was wrong then it was you couldn’t die if you got the shot. That was wrong. Then it was you won’t have a problem if you take the booster. Now they’re saying we need another. No wonder people are reluctant!!
Jim is the only common sense comment 👍. Can’t stop these brave freedom fighters. I’m a Ga pilot and we all need medical certificate every 6 months. If I had the money I would start my own airline on call it “NO FEAR”. We would be a great success
Science doesn’t care what you believe.
An excellent reason to never fly Hawaiian Airlines. COVID is a public health crisis, it’s a highly communicable disease & God has nothing to do with it. I guess Hawaiian employees, including their pilots, don’t believe in science. So, I can only conclude that they don’t believe in or understand Bernoulli’s Principle.
I think the airline is holding a great position (they are concerned about safety of passengers and employees). Its the unprofessional pilots and flight attendants in the wrong here.
Actually Evan, I see it as why I want to fly on Hawaiian. Because of HA’s effective handling of this the pilots flying their airplanes will be the pragmatic professionals we all want sitting up front. Not the few that think they know more then the scientists and the Medical community, or worse, think their right to choose is more important then the safety of all.
Kind of presumptious to claim to know the “will” of God.Also not sure I want my pilot with a heart condition.
100% agree. I don’t want to fly with a pilot who has coronary disease.
Except it’s not contagious
Except there are at least 2 pilots and heart disease is not contagious
Kathy, everyone on your flight is contagious. The pilots sit way up front behind a locked door. I’d say the people directly next to you way more relevant than pilot
Agreed. To understand the deity is to be the deity.