Here’s where we may be soon. Controversial measures for Hawaii travel.
143 thoughts on “Hawaii Overload: New Rules May Include Entrance by Vaccination Only”
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Here’s where we may be soon. Controversial measures for Hawaii travel.
Comments are closed.
Thank you for working hard to keep your residents and visitor safe. We love Hawaii and totally understand the motivation to protect your beautiful islands. Ignore the nasty comments like “I hope you go bankrupt”. 🙁 Sorry people have to get ugly and vindictive over a public health threat. As a health educator by trade, I think it’s so odd that a virus/pandemic became political.
Right now, on Oahu, if you have an accident or medical emergency, you cannot get treated in Queens Hospital ICU. It’s not an option because of unvaccinated Covid patients. Their ICU is full and over 90% of the Covid patients are unvaccinated, fact ….and the few breakthrough cases likely got it from an unvaccinated person. That part is my speculation but make up your own mind.
If you can’t see the dilemma Hawaii is facing and only have “what about me!” to add to the discussion you really aren’t welcome now. Nothing personal, but you are suggesting it’s ok to come here and exasperate the problem that is eroding the health care of all to an unacceptable level.
You folks with all your alternate perspectives trying to counter the simple fact that if everyone who could get a vaccination did we would all be much safer are wrong. It is a personal choice but trying to convince others of yours when it could cost them their life is immoral.
Other then that, have a nice day.
Aloha
Excellent. I hope we go 100% to vaccinated only can enter any place. Its the unvaccinated that are keeping us stuck in this virus mode. They all screamed open up! So a vaccine was created then they bitched they dont want the vaccine. Things opened up most got vaccinated so we tossed our masks. Well so did the unvaccinated and boom here we are AGAIN. Interesting that finally Gove and Lt Gove finally seem to be on the same page. Get vaccinated PLEASE>
Here’s Paul C. again, setting up his straw men to blow over in favor of loss of freedoms (but only for people who aren’t like him, “vaccinated”). Who isn’t getting the shot? I’d love to know if the 90% unvaxxed in the ICUs are locals or visitors. More than that, I’d like to reassert that it is the personal decision of the business owners, residents, and indigenous peoples of HI to make their own choices regarding this issue.
This isn’t going away, with or without the shot. Look at Israel, one of the highest vaccination rates (80%?!) in the world, and now they have been added to the USA’s “Do not travel” list b/c of COVID surges. And that “safe and effective” tripe about the shot? Israeli scientists are now claiming it is under 40% effective. I wonder if it is under 40% safe, too? No wonder Fauci wouldn’t answer questions from Senators about the vaccination numbers necessary to achieve herd immunity (also odd that nobody accounts for prior infection in that calculation for herd immunity, defying 100+ years of scientific precedent).
Here’s Harvey again questioning the fact that 90+% of those hospitalized with COVID are the unvaccinated. It is definitely community spread in Hawaii as in all of the lower vaxed states, but what diff. does it make? His basic fact that this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated allowing the virus to further mutate holds true.
Personal choice only goes so far. Let’s take your “freedom” assumption to its logical conclusion and open up the bars and restaurants to smokers again. People should be able to choose, right? See how that flies in the real world.
There is one big difference between that public health analogy and CV-19. It might take years of second hand exposure to reach its desired results. With CV-19, one time. That’s it. The Delta has been rated almost as contagious as Chicken Pox.
BTW, you left out the reason that Israelis are claiming lower efficacy. Delta is apparently breaking through some vaccinated causing the efficacy to drop, though all of the observed breakthrough cases (think MA)have resulted in just a few hospitalizations, no intubation, and zero deaths.
Wrong. The delta variant has an R0 value of 6, chicken pox has one of 9. that’s 50% higher contagiousness for chickenpox. That info you’re citing was erroneously picked up by the CDC from… a NYT infographic. I kid you not: npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/11/1026190062/covid-delta-variant-transmission-cdc-chickenpox Kind of makes you question some of the policy decisions based on those CDC stats, huh?
How does a person who gets COVID, with the shot, not provide a vector for mutation? Have you heard of “leaky vaccine?” Or ADE? ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC
It isn’t the unvaxxed who are the only possible reason for mutation. Further, I keep seeing arguments that the vaccine prevents serious sickness, but also that if I happen to breathe on you in public, I will possibly, literally kill you. Just one time. Forgetting that those with the shot can also spread covid to the vaxxed and unvaxxed alike.
You must look at Israel, as they are the “gold standard” for vaccine data at 80% of eligible people vaccinated, yet hospitalizations, serious cases are over half vaxxed (59%), not just a few like you claimed. Israel is now administering boosters 8 months out from the original shot: sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta
You’re also wrong about zero deaths in “breakthrough” cases. I don’t even know where you got that idea. Death rates are lower for everyone now, for a multitude of reasons (not killing people with ventilators or sending the infected back into nursing homes is a great start), but I don’t even need a source to disprove your “zero deaths” claim.
What about people who have recently had covid? Must they get the shot, too? What if they show a strong antibody presence? Or is the shot merely a litmus test, an easy answer to a complex (and mercifully, increasingly less lethal) problem?
Speaking in absolutes is a great way to be wrong.
What possible difference does it make if it’s a visitor or a resident that choose to skip the vaccine and is now burdening the health care system Harvey? Really?? You’re trying to avoid the simple reality that the unvaccinated are filling the hospitals…..it doesn’t matter who they are.
If everyone that could got vaccinated did we would not be in this mess right now….there is no argument against that.
I get it, your paranoid….but why do you feel the need to drag others into your paranoia? You could literally convince someone not to get the vaccine with your tripe and they could die as a result.
“You’re trying to avoid the simple reality that the unvaccinated are filling the hospitals…..it doesn’t matter who they are.”
You don’t get to make up Fake News, when arguing against someone else’s point, just because you “think” it’s true. The unvaccinated are NOT “filling the Hospitals”. There’s no factual evidence to support your claim in any news that’s been reported, let alone news backed by factual support. There are over 2500 Licensed Acute Care Beds in the state of Hawaii (look it up). There are 308 Covid patients in Hospitals across the state, as of last Monday’s numbers, reported on from the Star Advertiser, and only 1/3 of the ICU beds are occupied by Covid patients. There’s roughly 340 ICU bed in the State (far too low for 1.4+ million people, but I digress). So that’s 113+/- people, John, and some of them have likely been there long term. There’s no confirmation on vaccinated vs unvaccinated, and at only 308 hospitalized cases, it makes your “simple reality” NOT a reality at all.
“As case counts climb, so do hospitalizations. Some 308 COVID-19 patients are hospitalized throughout the state, according to state data updated Monday. The last time COVID-19 hospitalizations in Hawaii topped 300 was on Sept. 8, when the islands saw a record 315 patients admitted. Statewide, 64% of ICU beds are occupied. About one-third of the occupied beds are COVID-19 patients. There are 52 COVID-19 patients on ventilators.”
staradvertiser.com/2021/08/17/hawaii-news/no-icu-beds-available-at-queens-medical-facilities-as-covid-cases-surge-in-hawaii/
“If everyone that could got vaccinated did we would not be in this mess right now….there is no argument against that.”
Again, prove it! There is always an argument when you can’t prove your claim. suggesting your claim can’t be argued against (because YOU say so) is utterly ridiculous. 🤣 If you have no facts, your statement is nothing but opinion, and deflection from actual fact.
I’ll go with what Hawaii News Now and the Star Advertiser are reporting. If you think that’s “fake news” that defines you, not them. If the Hospitals are full with Covid patients and turning away patients in some cases and as the Lt Gov among others have said…over 90 percent of the Covid patients are unvaccinated, it’s pretty easy for most to draw an accurate conclusion. What I don’t get is why the people that somehow think their rights are being infringed upon by vaccine mandates meant to protect people are the same people that want to argue so voraciously against it. It’s an individual choice so why try so hard to convince others when the core of your argument is it’s no one’s business but their own.
You don’t want it, don’t get it, but why try to convince others to risk their life too?
I directly quoted from the Star Advertiser. I gave the statistics from State data you could look up, as well as from the HSA article, and I included the LINK.
John… it’s a “risk” whether you take the experimental vaccine or not, since, by taking the vaccine, you have no clue if you may encounter future long term side affects, as hundreds of thousands have had them, and some have actually died. 😳🤷♂️
You’re right about one thing, “it’s an individual choice”,and I’ve never once suggested people not take it, BECAUSE (you got it) it’s an individual choice! 😳
I think New York has it right. Everyone hss choices. You want to go out to eat? Get vaccinated. You want to find gainful employment? Get vaccinated. Like to visit Hawaii? Get vaccinated.
Don’t want to do any of those things? Then don’t. No one is taking away your choices. But, your choices are affecting everyone else.
Vaccination passport. Let’s do it
…and for all the freedom loving anti-vaxers…two words: Stay Home!
Watch the cancelations ramp up….
Probably not worth going now. Nothing will be open. Resentment will be high.
All because Hawaiians refuse to vaccinate. We are supposed to go Sept 4th. Our return flight was cancelled already. Now we have to leave early.
So we are now canceling. Try again next year I guess. I’ll bet a lot of others will now do the same.
Hawaii’s vaccination rate is higher than about 90% of the states. So why you think its Hawaiian’s spreading the virus not tourists boggles the mind
The governor says last week that the cases traced to visitors is less than 5%. The majority of cases are returning residents to the state of Hawaii that have vacationed elsewhere and bring it back with them.
Sad….requiring proof of vaccination to visit Hawaii????? Utterly ridiculous! I’ll pass. Keep your islands…..good luck….. I hope ya’all go bankrupt.
There goes another compassionate American. “I can’t do what I want so hope you all fail”.
AMEN!
Stay home Angie R. Hawaii doesn’t welcome tourists like you. We will not go bankrupt. We will survive without you.
You definitely won’t make it without tourism, until your government gets their crap together and develops other potential income sources to replace your states predominant one. Maybe they should invite the Casino industry in? Obviously local residents spend a LOT of time in Las Vegas, a current hot bed for Covid, where many “locals” are returning from, after being cooped up for over a year.
By the lack of developing a better fiscal infrastructure, and being so heavily dependent on tourism, you do comprehend that people will die, because their lives will be crushed, right? It’ll only get worse as Hawaii continues to do nothing. Hawaii may not go bankrupt, but only because someone will end up bailing your irresponsible government out, and it’ll end up being all of the other 49 states paying for the lack of governmental planning that’s led to the utter stupidity in Hawaii. They made their bed by becoming dependent on tourism, and since this began they’ve been behind the 8 ball every..step..of..the..way. Your government is inept. Let’s just see how long you can last, when 30-40% of your state is unemployed, and so many are living in destitute conditions. Its criminal that the common folks have to pay for mismanagement.
I am 100% confident that people spreading Covid now, in Hawaii, are the majority who are opting to do “quarantine” or NOT having to test to go/get back there (I wonder who they are 🙄). People like me who do our due diligence and test every time are NOT the super spreaders in Hawaii. I’ve been there 3 (going on 4) times since all this crap started, so I know it isn’t people like me. And, I don’t want to hear crap about how “I should stay home”. I own property there, and I have a right to live there and handle my business. I pay my taxes there just like you do.
Yep
Thank you. You have been very informative. Just FYI if someone takes a test 72hrs prior, then go shopping or party and also at the airport full of people, within the time of test and arrival in Hawaii, they could have the virus. Makes no sense to have the test. It should be done prior to boarding and if positive then they can’t board. Just my opinion.
LYN H… Totally agree but can you imagine the chaos!?!?!?!?!
Dr. Green’s comments addressing the mob that shows up at his house hit a nerve with me. For a politician to raise the temperature, I’m sure he is just as pissed as I.
Let’s use a common public health acceptable public behavior. A smoker decides to ignore restaurant and public health rules, lights up and just to make the point directs an exhale at the table next to him. How long would it take for most people to recoil. The common answer in today’s world is my body, my choice. That argument is as shallow as the analogy of the smoker. The difference is that what the unvaccinated inhale and exhale doesn’t take years to have the desired effect. One encounter. That’s what it takes.
by the way I have zero problems with travelers who show respect. It’s just a sin to purposely cause harm when there is a moral alternative to selfishness.
My daughter isn’t vaccinated and will not be vaccinated. She is going to California to visit her Dad in a couple of weeks. If she can’t come back home because she’s not vaccinated, I am going to be one extremely unhappy Mama.
Then keep her at home.
An excellent example of the truth behind Dr. green’s and my comments.
beatofhawaii.com/hawaii-overload-new-rules-may-include-entrance-by-vaccination-only/comment-page-2/#comment-66532
Aloha,
Delta variant is actually showing up in equal amounts of people with the vaccine verses those without. It’s also transmitted via those with the vaccine. This information is from a report published by the CDC. Of course mainstream media isn’t dispersing this information, but it’s the truth. This vaccine might be reducing the severity of the delta variant of the virus but it’s certainly not stopping it. We need to stop politicizing this virus and be open and honest about what’s going on. We are not being told the truth. COVID is being used as a political pawn and it’s time we the people are being told the truth.
Mahalo
DAVID K… Please supply the url for the CDC report as I’d like to read that documentation myself. Mahalo.
cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm
Thank you for that David. The fact that we are not being told this and other facts by media corporations is a major disservice to the American public. People are generally rational and intelligent, but they can’t make well-informed decisions about their own health, much less policy, if they don’t have all of the relevant facts.
Those facts are being suppressed at several points, all because we’re deemed too stupid/selfish to handle them and make our own decisions (remember Fauci and the “masks don’t work” line designed to prevent panic buying, then back-track, then two masks [and maybe goggles!?] then no mask if shot, then yes, even with the shot?). It is the same as the misstatements that antibodies and T-cells don’t serve the same purpose as the vax or that they don’t last as long (they apparently protect the recovered for longer than the shot does).
Every post has a kernel of truth, but if you read the full MMWR, note the following excerpts:
“Overall, 274 (79%) vaccinated patients with breakthrough infection were symptomatic. Among five COVID-19 patients who were hospitalized, four were fully vaccinated; no deaths were reported.”
Indication: Confirmation that breakthrough infections still are milder in results than unvaccinated infections.
and this…
“Findings from this investigation suggest that even jurisdictions without substantial or high COVID-19 transmission might consider expanding prevention strategies, including masking in indoor public settings regardless of vaccination status, given the potential risk of infection during attendance at large public gatherings that include travelers from many areas with differing levels of transmission.”
Your next pronouncement is also erroneous:
“It is the same as the misstatements that antibodies and T-cells don’t serve the same purpose as the vax or that they don’t last as long (they apparently protect the recovered for longer than the shot does).”
This from recent NIH meta-research analysis:
“By closely examining the results, the researchers uncovered important differences between acquired immunity in people who’d been vaccinated and unvaccinated people who’d been previously infected with SARS-CoV-2. Specifically, antibodies elicited by the mRNA vaccine were more focused to the RBD compared to antibodies elicited by an infection, which more often targeted other portions of the spike protein. Importantly, the vaccine-elicited antibodies targeted a broader range of places on the RBD than those elicited by natural infection.”
Please be very careful about assumptions, especially those that are tainted by political bias.
Your source cites one “preprint”, (unpublished/not peer reviewed) study that is poorly designed and has a tiny sample size. It also makes a lot of assumptions about the mutation of the virus, discounts the superior non-RBD response of natural antibodies, and compares dissimilar time-frames between the vaccinated vs. unvaccinated subjects (allowing more time post infection antibody response testing for the unvaccinated subjects, of course). Careful with your assumptions which are based on non-peer reviewed studies (which themselves are subject to reaction, as the Lancet has provided ample proof in the past year and a half).
Thank you. I am puzzled by the claim that “breakthrough cases are rare among the vaccinated”. Does not appear that it was a rare occurrence in Provincetown in July 2021. In addition, at least five Texas state representatives who flew to DC became infected and they were all vaccinated, too. Once again, not “rare” by my definition. Just over the weekend, there was another story about vaccinated cruise ship passengers and employees who became infected with Covid-19.
For the record, I had Covid-19, am fully vaccinated and will get the booster as well as I expect it will be required when we travel to Hawaii next winter. But, I do feel like I am a pawn. When they lifted the mask requirement for vaccinated individuals, I believe this was more to entice the unvaccinated to get vaccinated. Apparently the CDC didn’t think that the unvaccinated would remain unvaccinated and just go unmasked. Now I feel like the vaccinated are being a pawn again as “breakthrough infections are rare” for the vaccinated. From the paper above and other reports in the media, breakthrough infections are not that rare. So are they rare or not? Is the media sensationalizing breakthrough infections or not?
Another thing that bothers me is the flip-flopping by the CDC/Dr. Fauci. I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person; at this point, I would rather hear, “We don’t know or we are studying that issue further and when we have more information, we will let you know”. The statements, “Covid-19 is not a threat to the U.S.”, “masks are not necessary”, “everyone should wear masks”, “stand 6 feet apart; no, should be 9 feet”, “if you’re vaccinated, no mask is required”, etc., just makes them lose credibility–which is another reason why some people won’t get vaccinated. I understand it is a novel virus. I am intelligent enough to know they don’t have all the answers. Maybe that’s just me; perhaps most are comforted to hear something, even if the information may not be that helpful.
Mary,
Science changes as they find new information. This is why you think Fauci has flip flopped or whatever. As scientists learn new things science changes. Fauci is a great man like him or not.
Please read my response to Harvey H when posted.
“Is the media sensationalizing breakthrough infections or not?”
Mary, the media has been sensationalizing virtually everything regarding this virus from the beginning. Controlled Chaos keeps the masses confused, and creates division, which in-turn keeps the masses from uniting. you do realize that they’ve been doing it for decades upon decades now, right?
As “science changes” (what a load of hog-wash that oxy-moron is) so does the “opinions” of half the scientific industry. It’s not science, at this point, it’s a guessing game. This WAS (and still is) an untested (Yes, we’re all guinea pigs) drug! This IS now proving what happens when a drug like this does not get the years of testing it should. It has become a circus with clowns stumbling around fumbling for answers telling some people what they want/need to here.
DAVID K… This is what I drew from that report… “First, data from this report are insufficient to draw conclusions about the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, including the Delta variant, during this outbreak.”
Ninety percent of the people consuming Hawaii’s already limited healthcare resources are unvaccinated, and they are loading up the system to the point trauma victims, heart attack victims, stroke victims aren’t able to get the care they may need to survive. The vaccinated can get infected and can transmit to others – but don’t themselves represent additional drains on Hawaii’s healthcare resources – that’s the issue, not whether the vaccinated can get the Delta variant and also transmit it. If the consequences of getting the Delta variant and transmitting it to others were like getting a bad cold or the seasonal flu for everyone, there would be no need for these kinds of controls and mitigations – that’s the only truth that matters here, deflections, conspiracy theories and insinuations aside.