More nagging issues could well extend the already long absence of Boeing 737 Max flights to Hawaii. Max planes are considered integral to more Hawaii routes being added by Southwest, and other airlines.
All airlines have taken the new planes off their schedules until June at this point, suggesting the return may be in the 2nd half of the year at the earliest. The FAA said Friday, however, that flights could technically resume sooner.
And in the meantime, we, Joe Public, are still asking ourselves if we want to get on them at any time soon, no matter what the airlines and the FAA do.
Of the airlines that fly from the US Mainland to Hawaii, Alaska Airlines, American Airlines, Southwest Airlines and United Airlines are all Boeing “Max” customers. As a point of clarification, the only planned Max flights to Hawaii we are aware of are to be on Southwest Hawaii Max 8.
Alaska Airlines:
The company has ordered 32 of the 737 Max 9, and they are scheduled to begin service on the mainland with those mid-year at this point.
American Airlines:
American Airlines has 24 of the Max 8 planes in service and 76 on order. They are off-schedule until June.
Delta Airlines:
No Max aircraft are in their fleet.
Hawaiian Airlines:
Hawaiian has no Boeing Max aircraft in their fleet and they have none on order.
Southwest Airlines:
Southwest has 34 Max 8 that were in service prior to the grounding and 245 more on order. At this time, all of the current Southwest Hawaii flights are using the company’s 737-800 aircraft. The company said that the Max problems cut income by over $800 million in 2019.
United Airlines:
They have 14 of the 737 Max 9, with 71 on order as well as 100 Max 10 planes on order. The company said in their recent earnings call, “Can’t tell you how long the MAX will be grounded.”
Boeing: The manufacturer is now recommending pilots receive flight simulator training before the grounded Max planes return. That is a complete reversal of their position that only computer-based training was needed. Simulators are of course in high demand, and it could take months for that process to be completed at Southwest, which owns 34 of the planes. Boeing said they “Are currently estimating that the ungrounding of the 737 MAX will begin during mid-2020.”
FAA: On Friday they met with US airlines and said they have not yet set a time frame for completely re-certifying the aircraft, according to a statement from the agency. “Safety is the top priority, and the FAA continues to work with other safety regulators to ensure that Boeing has addressed all known issues with the aircraft.”
Updated 1/27/20.
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Tammy says
My Father was a Boeing Engineer for 35 years and I’d like to respectfully correct a lot of these people regarding Boeing putting profits before safety which is absolutely not true at all. Without going into detail, I can see that a lot of people here are scared basing opinions on incorrect ideas versus facts. Facts that you wouldn’t have without direct knowledge. As with anything that is man made, including the car you drive every day, there can be after market recall on parts, but it doesn’t change the fact that no matter how much driver training someone has, not everyone should be behind the wheel. Not blaming human error entirely, and I understand why people are scared, but to blame an organization entirely with “they only care about profit” is reckless when you have no direct knowledge of The Boeing Company and their dedication to workmanship and safety.
Chris says
I feel that I will have a great seat selection when the max returns to service. I’m not afraid of it at all.
Robert H. says
This is a helpful comment. My first thought is that there is no way in hell I’m getting on one, at least not for a year or two after we see what happens. I admire your courage.
Jeff says
For those of us in northwest Washington, flights from Vancouver, B.C. are often much more convenient than from Seattle. Air Canada has had to bring in a charter company from Atlanta, Omni Air, to provide service since Air Canada was using the Max. Omni is flying the route as Air Canada in a 767. Instead of daily service, it has been every other day.
While not the “Mainland USA”, it is an option for those traveling from Washington State as well as Canada.
CalvinW says
Well it turns out Colleen was correct…other problems have popped up…from faulty wiring harnesses to speculation that perhaps the 737 has just been overstretched beyond what it should have been… All this was done as a result of a company philosophy that over prioritized profits (Seattle Times editorial recently said this)….resulting in hundreds of deaths.
Also SWA was a major driver in pressuring Boeing to keep costs down and to keep squeezing the 737 hull for all it’s worth.
I don’t particularly trust them as they certainly offer a cut rate inferior Hawaii product in the name of trying to keep fares down.
Sorry, I’m not impressed with SWA or the MAX. Perhaps SWA over reached what they do by flying TransPac as well as the MAX overreached what the 737 was capable of.
In the long run, the cut rate airlines just don’t do that well in the Hawaii market.
Dave W. says
It is not a faulty wire harness. There is a small chance of two wires in a large wire bundle shorting out. Assuming they are even near each other, touching. You have a better change of winning the lottery and being struck by lighting on the same day. This wire routing is also on the 737NG. Rather than fight with the FAA about if this was certified incorrectly (i.e. previouly certified on the NG, and grandfathered in as the bundle was not changed between the NG and MAX), Boeing has chosen to rework the wire routing on all MAXs which have not flown away from the the Puget Sound. THe Seattle Times article doesn’t speak for those of us who worked on the MAX (myself included), non of us put safety over profits.
Michael K says
I have no worries about flying on the Max when it returns to the air. After all the issues being checked and rechecked and tested and tested, I think it will probably be the safest aircraft ever to fly again. No worries here
Mike G says
It won’t be. The Max should never of been allowed to fly. It’s not a safe, reliable aircraft and Bowing knew it. But to them, making a profit was more important than passenger safety
John W says
The issues with the 737 max are a result of Boeing putting profits ahead of safety at any cost….good on the American Pilots
for having their priorities right, and good on Sully for his perspective…..where’s Southwest stand?
Colleen says
Ran across this website with quite a bit of info on Max8.
https://airlinerwatch.com/tag/737-max-8/
The U.S. is not the only country with Max8 worries. One country was cancelling an order for a huge number of the planes. Many countries want Boeing to do a lot more testing and train ALL pilots on simulators (and there are very few of them). If this happens – it may be a while before the Max8 flies again. We have decided to fly Hawaiian – even though it means foregoing our ‘FREE companion pass’ this year on SWA. :0/ We had considered going – despite our fear – but decided to donate our miles to our son for a trip that he will take BEFORE Max8 flies again.
Sadly, money seems to be the most important thing. Boeing knew a lot that they did not share and it cost lives. Maybe the first passengers on Max 8 should be Boeing Execs. ???
Shawn C. says
Actually, the Max 800 will likely be the very safest plane to fly after it starts flying again due to all the oversight, scrutiny, and pilot over-attentiveness it will receive.
Mike G says
That I seriously doubt
Colleen says
Sadly, software isn’t the only issue. Serious design flaws.
DB says
Colleen, you mean besides the hard-to-turn trim wheel crank? What other serious design flaws does it have?
John w says
Who knows what else there may be…..we do know this airplane was built with a philosophy of maximizing profits by cutting corners that they THOUGHT it was safe to do…..you certainly have to wonder what other corners were cut?
The fact that they they still wanted to get away with minimizing pilot training to save money doesn’t exactly earn a lot of faith in Boeing right now.
Colleen says
Read recently that many feel the engines are too large for the aircraft. :0/
PW says
– Bigger engines required more ground clearance
– Engine mounting is higher and more forward
– AoA sensors: Boeing’s design only used one of the two
– Customers were allowed to purchase planes without warning lights
– The MCAS was designed to counteract the tendency of the nose on 737 Max jets to point up due to heavier engines being mounted in a more forward position on the wing than in previous versions of the 737
Dave W. says
The comment about the warning lights isn’t fully correct. One there isn’t a light that turned on for the warning, it is on the displays. (but that might have been in intention of your wording) There is a warning message that was part of the standard software that would identify when the AOA sensors we not in agreement. Boeing has already stated that an error in a update to the program tied this to a purchased option, which it was not suppose to be. The options that the customer could buy showed this data/warnings differently.
Mike G says
Very true
Doug N. says
I also doubt this will be the case. Since Boeing was pushing profits it is hard to know what other areas could have been compromised. Time will tell. Hopefully no serious accidents will occur. The US based airlines have a great safety record the past 10-15 years. My largest concern as a flyer is with Southwest, an airline that I use a lot. They are replacing their current fleet with the Max aircraft, and plan to have nearly 300 of them in the coming years. If more issues or problems are found, this could seriously impact Southwest. Perhaps their one plane manufacturer / type may get challenged. Once the Max is approved to fly again I may postpone any planned trips on Southwest if the Max aircraft will be on the schedule. I think after 3 months with no issues, I will feel comfortable flying on this plane again. What do you all think?
Kathy says
I For one will never knowingly fly on a max plane. Software glitch loses lives.? Pilots of both crashed airliners it has been proven did follow Beoing protocol. But they still crashed. Guess. Boeing gave the wrong protocol so how can we trust them with the next “protocol”? Also they only offered a safety feature for extra money not as a Standard feature. They have fear in their faces all right but o my because they may lose money. Kathy
Troy says
Not entirely a true statement. They did follow protocol to adjust aircraft trim, but they did not deactivate the software in question. Thus when they did follow the protocol the situation temporarily was corrected and then the software would take over and put the plane back in the dive. Any pilot must follow all protocols and be a pilot. There are times we must override a piece of software and fly the plane ourselves – sadly this is the skill being deteriorated in our system today.
Colleen says
I say scrub all the ”plane flies itself” software – or most of it – and let pilots fly planes again. Max 8 had inadequate flight training. Pilots should have KNOWN what they needed to do to prevent disaster. They did not. Whose fault is it? BOEING.
Alex says
Troy — my recollection is Boeing had not even disclosed to pilots and airlines that the software (i.e., MCAS) was there in the first place. The pilots had to deactivate a software function that they didn’t even know existed and yet something that was all of a sudden acting up dramatically and trimming the nose repeatedly down into the ground. Just my 2 cents.
Dave W. says
It is a set of switches that have been on the NG too. It’s standard procedure for run away trim to flip these switched to the off position. It was not done on these crashes. (well we know Lion Air and may never know on ETH as of the government is handling this there but refusing to release all of the flight data from the FDR)
Chris says
I agree. I won’t trust those planes.
SUSAN says
Have concerns on a united flight we have to Maui in May–737 max 9 from SFO. Will jet be changed before then or can we just expect the max 9 to be “worry free”?
Peter G says
Typo above: says Southwest has the 738-800. Should be 737-800.
Beat of Hawaii says
Hi Peter.
Thanks.
Aloha.
Beverly J says
We are flying to Maui in June via
Alaska. Will 747MAX be used. Very
Concerned
Mike G says
Alaska only flies either the 737-800 or 737-900 extended range aircraft. There are currently no 737 Max aircraft in Alaska’s fleet. You will be fine and will be flying a great airline to paradise
Kathy says
I have reservations on American Airlines for mid April
To go to Hawaii the big island. I wonder if the
Plane could be a 737 Max 8. What should I do
I am very concerned. Which airline should I take if
I can make a change?? Thanks
Beat of Hawaii says
Hi Kathy.
We specifically addressed that yesterday. They have no Max flights to Hawaii at this time.
Aloha.
Mike G says
You should fly Alaska instead
kiawe says
Thank you for the airframe updates (and thank you JeffL for the explanations). If AirCanada and other airlines were wise, they would immediately announce that until the software is patched, they were pulling the 737MAXes from active service; existing reservations would be honored and seats reassigned. It might mean a short-term loss, but which is worse: having people cancel flights and risking another crash, or temporarily grounding part of the fleet? Continuing to fly aircraft with known issues is a publicity nightmare.