124 thoughts on “Will New Vaccination Passport Mandate Work and Become The Standard?”
JohnW
Interesting editorial in the Star Advertiser, apparently restaurants are including “de escalation training” ahead of implementation of the vaccine passport.
With hospitals and staff here stretched to the max and triage tents being set up, decisions are having to be made as to who gets what level of care. Incoming patients can no longer be guaranteed that everything that could be done for them will be done. In addition patients in need of important elective surgery and potentially life saving testing are being denied. The Covid patients in the hospitals here, like elsewhere are overwhelmingly unvaccinated.
Yet something as simple as letting vaccinated people dine in restaurants and requesting unvaccinated people to simply use the restaurants carry out option as a means to reduce spread has gotten pushback. The simple act of common sense steps to take that support the business economy and also would help to reduce the spread of Covid is too much for some.
Auwe!
John W., It’s a shame that certain elements in our society have decided, for their own advantage, to politicize this pandemic. Now we are ALL paying for that, and it looks like our ability to finally end this is in serious jeopardy. People have messed around long enough that we are now seeing variants that might well be resistant to the current vaccines. The new Mu variant out of Columbia being an example. It’s showing up here in LA already, and I expect it to show up in Hawai soon, if it’s not there already. The only way that Hawaii can avoid it is if they go to pre-flight testing again, only this time for ANYONE flying into the state resident or visitor doesn’t matter. That’s the only way to keep the virus out.
Fauci was just on saying that in his opinion this will be a yearly 3 shot regumine going forward. Everyone good with that? That’s vaccine cards going to fill up pretty fast.
Where did you hear that? What I heard him says was “There was good reason to believe that a third dose “will actually be durable, and if it is durable, then you’re going to have very likely a three-dose regimen being the routine regimen”. Durable, as in lasts, as in not every year. The problem is going be that if enough people don’t get vaccinated that we will continue to see variant, and eventually variants that the current vaccine isn’t effective with. In that case, a new version of the vaccine will, indeed, be needed. Worst case is that we end up in the same position we are in now with the Flu were, indeed, we need to get a 3 shot regimen every year. That would be the Worst case. We can avoid that by more people just getting vaccinated so that the mutations stop.
I recall Hawaii undertaking stronger similar measures over a year ago.
The result? A billion dollar loss to the economy, a significant detraction from Hawaii’s tourism efforts, and a Hawaii awash in infections.
What has changed so we may expect different results this time? Vaccines, of course.
As of August 30, Hawaii had 45 percent of its population not fully vaccinated and 24 percent without having received any vaccine. And that is without consideration of the new 8 month “booster” requirement announcement.
I’m sorry, but I don’t grasp how having one’s papers inspected at “Checkpoint Charlie” or having a timer set when one steps in to a local fast food establishment for a burger lead to significantly improving Hawaii’s vaccination or infection rate.
New numbers out falling pretty quick like I said by sept13 they will be below 150. Never should have stopped the 72 hour test, then it took them over 2 months to after it was pretty obvious what was going on. So now they will be implementing something completely useless that makes things more complex. So what happens when the original vaccine has worn off due to waning immunity? Does the card need to be updated? then those that are unvaccinated, or vaccinated without the shot are banned? How long does this keep rolling? Just put the 72 hour test back in and end it.
By Sept 13th, the Labor Day surge will be going on. I doubt any locals are cancelling plans for family gatherings unless they are already sick.
Airlines should require tests to fly, anywhere, any direction.
To get people vaccinated, there need to be more monetary penalties like Delta airlines – $200 month more for health insurance (bravo). And vaxxed only stadiums + concerts, etc.
Where do you get those numbers? What the hospitals, and unfortunately more and more the morgues, are full of are unvaccinated people. It’s pretty simple, get vaccinated and don’t end up in the hospital or dead. Then you can also travel to Hawaii with very little in the way of hassle. Choose not to, and life is going to get harder and harder for you as the rest of us who are tired of paying the price for the choice you make to remain unvaccinated put more and more restriction into place. In other words, more and more “vaccine passports” are going to be popping up all over the place, including in Hawaii.
Natural Immunity, which hundreds of thousands of people have is 700 Times more Preventative than the no longer useful and outdated Vax ( I know because my brother in law is CEO of a local hospital in California and his sister is CNO of an even bigger one- I know the facts on the ground)…NO one seems to want to talk about Natural Immunity which throughout history has always been preferred to any kind of concoction of injections. To Discriminate against those people not only goes against common sense, logic and reason but is Discrimination of the highest order! Just do the 72 hour test coming/going and let logic reign and allow Facts/fear.
I’ll agree with you insofar as it goes. People who have had, and survived, COVID should be given a “vaccine card” so that they can go about their business just like someone who has been vaccinated. As you say, they have naturally developed antibodies against the virus.
Having said that, there’s a lot of misinformation in your post I’d like to address, at least in reference to the mRNA based vaccines. First of all, the vaccine is HIGHLY effective. This has been shown over and over again. But it’s effectiveness seems to come in 2 parts. The first part is its ability to prevent infection at all. It’s most effective at this early on, and this ability degrades over time. This is why we are talking about a 3rd shot after 8 months. BTW, the studies done on this seem to suggest that natural immunity is good, but combined with the vaccine is GREAT. The question is should those folks who have had COVID get 1 or 2 shots. It’s looking like 1 is enough, but 2 doesn’t hurt. Ok, so that’s part 1. The second part is more long term. While the ability to protect against any infection at all degrades over time during that time the body is also building a long term ability to prevent severe illness. That ability can last for YEARS. If you’re interested in more information about this take a look at this link which describes all this in more detail and better than I can. npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/30/1032520934/immunity-to-covid-19-could-last-longer-than-youd-think
At present, I don’t think we have sufficient consistent data regarding vaccines in the field to know how effective or ineffective they are over much of a window of time. This is due to them chasing a moving target that morphs relatively easily and quickly. Flu virus comes to mind. What may be effective today may not be so tomorrow. Regardless, it is a very good base to work from.
That said, I agree the availble evidence shows current vaccines do increase protection against some currently identified forms as well as mitigate the effects of an infection. This being the case, they can act to relieve our medical facilities and slow things to a more manageable pace.
But I think we might agree many must be vaccinated for this to work.
The three primary reasons cited as to why individuals do not get the COVID vaccine.
1. They don’t trust government.
2. They don’t trust COVID vaccines.
3. They don’t trust vaccines of any type.
In the context of the issues presented in header of this BOH thread, I suggest: vaccine cards do not fix this; checkpoints do not fix this; test do not fix this; lock downs do not fix this; only having 15 minutes in McDonald’s does not fix this. Promulgating “them and us” policies do not fix this.
In fact I truly wonder if these “quick fixes”, applied without open discussion and clear simple medical explanation as to necessity, are not assisting in causing this problem.
We may well be feeding the very attitudes we need to starve.
JohnW
Heyward, while your take on “they don’t trust vaccines” is true it ignores why. This got politicized. A lot of fingerpointing and conspiracy lies were spread in the name of galvanizing a political base. We have become quite divided on the internet and for many people that’s their reality, now we are living with the consequences of political demonization of our fellow Americans.
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Joerg H.
Heyward,
I agree with John W’s comment about the lack of trust having been driven by the politicization of a public health issue. If only we had some kind of government agency that we spent billions of dollars on and that hired some of the most preeminent people in the field to help us work through all this and give us advice on how to handle the pandemic …
1
John
Nita, while your premise that natural immunity should be looked at is valid, when you throughout comments like “700 times” and “outdated vaccine” you damage your credibility
A lot more people would die, but for you?…maybe that’s the price we have to pay to get to “natural immunity”… vaccinations eradicated small pox world wide,
not “natural immunity”
Think about that, when you dream of “natural immunity” wiping this PANdemic out of existence.
As long as Hawaii continues to push their stupidity concerning vaccine passports, I will not be back. I still own 3 properties in Hawaii and I would love to visit them but I will NOT be blackmailed into taking this poisonous jab just to satisfy these politician’s tyranny. They are destroying Hawaii businesses, families, and lives. There is no aloha anymore in Hawaii and I grieve for the people of Hawaii. Let the lawsuits begin!
Goldie, you are on record elsewhere spreading misinformation, a lot of it and from way deep in the rabbit hole (no 40,000 people have not died from the vaccine)…be careful what you say when you go into “I’m gonna sue!” attack mode. There’s consequences for lying in court.
btw there is plenty of Aloha still in Hawaii….look past the angry fingerpointers on the internet and you’ll find many many people helping others unconditionally here in Hawaii. As always, in Hawaii a little respect gets a lot in return.
Goldi the vaccine passports and everything Hawaii is trying to do is to simply save lives. Obviously if everyone was vaccinated the overflowing hospitals wouldn’t be an issue. You believe some pretty crazy stuff about vaccines to support your decision but the safety and effectiveness of getting vaccinated is irrefutable ( by that I mean the overwhelming support of the vaccines from the medical and scientific community vs random Facebook posts and misinformation being used to manipulate people). That said, human nature being what it is it’s simply not possible to get everyone vaccinated. So the mandates that arise out of trying to save lives are necessary, especially in Hawaii were we have limited hospital space.
As far as businesses suffering, for sure many are having a bad year (to put it mildly) but interesting enough many are reinventing themselves and yes prospering. I know of restaurants that switched to take out only and with no need for waiters, bus staff, dishwasher’s etc they became more profitable. Many other businesses are reinventing themselves in other ways and well poised for success when we recover so yes Hawaii will recover.
You are on the mainland and spreading lies about the vaccine and yet the quickest route to Hawaii returning to normal is getting people vaccinated. If you are fighting against the vaccine you are fighting against full business recovery. The bottom line on the shutdowns that saved lives is this…you can recover from a business downturn, not so much from dying.
Segregation is returning to America – we’ve just substituted “vaccinated” for “white” and “unvaccinated” for “colored”. In Hawaii, you could say the ancient caste system is returning: Ige is King, Green is Alii, the public health directors and mayors are Kahuna, the obediently vaxxed (1x, 2x, 3x, etc… – whatever the Kahuna decree) are the Makaainana, and the unvaxxed are the Kauwa – ostracized and persecuted. Is this really what we want our society to become? Please wake up, friends!
I am a senior from Georgia and well remember the segregation present here in my earlier days. Starting almost 60 years ago we began to fix this, not perfectly but pretty well. Yet the impact from it exist here in my small rural community even today.
I suggest the distrust and fear arising from segregation, even de facto type segregation as with this, will take firm root in Hawaii. When one is denied and denigrated by others it doesn’t matter as much the why of it, but rather the who of it. Being in a segregated class burns and scars the soul and is a human condition not easily forgotten nor forgiven.
Given their history and culture, I’m very surprised Hawaiians pursue this.
I think that’s a bit of an exaggeration. What do you suggest that Hawaii do to prevent their hospitals from getting overrun? It’s easy to say what it is you don’t like, but tell me what alternative you suggest? Do nothing isn’t an alternative, BTW, if that’s where you’re going with this. We can see that in Florida where people are dropping like flies because of that attitude.
Yet it’s the vaccinated that are working hard to help the unvaccinated. The Pacific Islander community does have a higher unvaccinated rate….which simply means they have been victimized more by misinformation then they deserve. But they are hardly the only ones…. a significant percentage of our country is vulnerable to misinformation and baseless conspiracy theories….. What is happening is misinformationists are victimizing people. As a result people are dying because they believe a random facebook post and then make their mind up on that alone.
Assuming that you are white, perhaps now you have a better appreciation for systemic racism, otherwise known as walking, driving, hanging out, talking while black.
Hi BOH,
Any more word on pre travel covid test for the ones who have been vaxed? We’re flying out to Kauai on sept 12th. You have to start trying to get an appt for the test sun – tues for Thur! They go fast….. We did use The Clear app in case we needed it and it was a breeze! Thanks for all your help!!
The US Food and Drug Administration announced the resignations of two top vaccine officials on Tuesday, and reports said the two were leaving in anger over the administration’s plan to roll out COVID-19 booster shots before officials had a chance to approve it.
Wrong. The two submitted their letters with no explanation. What you are referring to are reports from anonymous sources. additional sources contradicted those sources saying that the two resigned over a disagreement with their superior.
When do the obesity cards come out? 75 percent of deaths and hospitalizations are in those that are obese and most of those are diabetic and have an average of 2.6 comorbidity. So when do these cards come out. You dont need to be obese it’s a choice. Reduce obesity you reduce cases. This would be especially helpful in restaurants. Sorry you can only order from the salad side of the menu, water only no soda. On planes they’d have to buy two seats so people like me wouldn’t be bothered by them. They also put more wear and tear on beds in hotels are more dangerous to lift in elevators so along with resort fee should be an obese fee. Kinda see where this is going?
Refreshing, a Bankrupt State, 99.9% dependent on Tourism and Military, has a Governor that closed it down, having the newly UN-employed savor in the States generous un-Employment (also $500,000,000.00 upside down) + The Federal Stipend of a $300.00/Wk. Bonus rather then going back to work! A Vaccine that after 4-6 months is at 40% Effective Rate, with Vaxxed and un-Vaxxed being equal in the opportunity to contract. Follow the Israel Study. Ask Pfizer about Chantix? The Pfizer that got FDA Approval, is not the same as what was given, that would have not been approved until 2023. This is a not Salk, Measles, TB vaccine! The Governor has bankrupted Business that will not return, one of the top Dinng Establishments, Alan Wongs, through in the Towel, Loves Bakery a tradition for 100 years. 1,200 Hundred First Responders from Fire and Police, are not taking the Vaccination. Now there talking about restricting travel after Southwest said yes, to the Tourism Board, Hotels have Reservations, how do they decide who get’s the X-# of Rooms? The State will need a Federal Bailout of immense proportion, and it’s only the high unemployment States that want the $, NY, NJ, Mi., Ill., Ca., NM and Hi., all over 7% because of bad Governance. Good on you Liam!
You are Completely Correct! My brother in law is CEO of a local Hospital in OC, California and his sister is CNO (Chief Nursing Officer) and almost 100% of Covid deaths had either Obesity or Diabetes as the most prevalent co-conditions! Bring on the Obesity Gold Star or Proof of non-Diabetic Gold Star and you will reduced Covid Deaths dramatically. Unfortunately, I think the Island may have high rates of both in it’s local citizenry as once my sister had a gall bladder issue and ended up at Queen’s Hospital in Oahu and she said Every single person who she talked to asked her if she was diabetic. No she is not, and yes she was fine:) In her observation she told us ” I think there must be a Big problem of Diabetes on the island” I am sure there is data one could track down to confirm or deny. Either way Medical discrimination is still discrimination
You’re missing an important difference. Obesity only hurts the person that’s obese. What you describe as hurting others are merely inconveniences. COVID, on the other hand, is a virus that can kill you that you can spread to others. Big difference there…
Correct me if I am mistaken, but don’t you have many other comments on this blog site pointing out that the unvaxxed are selfishly taking up hospital resources that may be needed for non-COVID related emergencies of the more deserving vaxxed?
If being vaxxed doesn’t necessarily stop you from catching COVID, but reduces the severity, can’t the same thing be said about being in good physical shape and not a human beach ball?
It needs to be said: The Large Marges and Henry Hippos are disproportionately ending up in the hospital with COVID, thereby selfishly putting the Slim Jims and Kale Kathys at risk. Not to mention the visual blight when POGs (people of girth) squeeze into their beach shorts (or worse). Talk about whale watching.
I say we create “fit” passports (could be sponsored by Jenny Craig) along with a lockdown of all donut shops, fast food joints, ice cream shops, and the supermarket isles that have the crackers and cookies. Anyone over 220 pounds must wear two masks whenever they try to eat or drink anything except water. And no cheating using straws unless they hate the ocean. It’s a public health emergency. This is no time for the “fat shaming” propaganda that leads gullible people to believe that Jabba the Hut is a normal body shape. Poor Mini Mike was ridiculed for trying to outlaw Big Gulps of soda, but in hindsight, that may have saved thousands of lives.
And what about old people, since they obviously pose a much higher risk of being hospitalized. Pretty darn selfish. And they smell a little funny, too, according to sources or studies or science or something. Time for “youth” passports for those under 50 (could be sponsored by Logan’s Run).
I’m sitting here wondering if you’re just being sarcastic, if you really believe this? As you point out, it’s the unvaccinated that are filling up the hospitals. It’s as simple as that. Get the jab, and do your part. If you don’t, well, then life is going to get harder for you the way things are going. All of this other stuff, is nothing more than red herrings and whataboutism.
Sure, the unvaxxed will be treated poorly by others. Whether that will convince someone to get vaxxed, or just make them dig in, I don’t know.
It is not whataboutism that the obese also take up a disproportionate amount of health care resources, and in the case of COVID, apparently being obese (especially if unvaxxed) increasesones odds when it comes to who are the 1% that get hospitalized.
But 99% do not, which is likely a big reason why the unvaxxed are not as panicked as old people would like them to be. A healthy 30 year old has a better chance to end up in the ER or morgue from a car crash than COVID. This may annoy old people who have much greater risk, but it is what it is.
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Beat of Hawaii
Hi David.
BTW, keep your levity coming. We still need it.
Aloha.
David B
Sure thing. But, Covid paranoids don’t have a sense of humor.
OT – Going to get in line for the final afternoon convoy up the Hanalei Hill. Bistro still has their $30 Prime Rib special going on Fridays, following the 3-6 happy hour. Cant be beat on the north shore, and no I do not get any discount for the promotion.
We’re still on Mountain time, so waking up at 2 am and dead on our feet by 6 pm.
You ever do a post on jag lag for mainland visitors, especially those coming from the east coast? You know, the ones cracking the beers open before 10 am out on the beach.
Liam G
I was in homedepot this morning around 10:30 here in Arizona. The young customers were mostly wearing masks and the majority of older folks had no mask on. Just an observation.
Joerg H.
Look, I agree that obesity is an issue in this country. However, you’re conflating that problem with the vaccination issue in order to make a point that’s simply not correct. A report published Tuesday from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that, based on data out of Los Angeles County, unvaccinated people are almost five times more likely be infected and over 29 times more likely to be hospitalized with Covid-19. As for people who aren’t worried about getting COVID because they are young and healthy, that’s becoming less and less true. Cases of younger people ending up in the hospital or dying of COVID are higher with the Delta variant. Take a look at: usnews.com/news/best-states/alabama/articles/2021-08-21/nobody-should-go-through-this-delta-variant-hits-young
Last, but not least, this entire position some people are taking that “I have very little chance of getting severely ill, so to heck with it” is pretty self centered, don’t you think? Don’t forget, that if they DO get sick, and even if they don’t end up in the hospital, there’s a good chance that they will spread the disease. So getting the vaccine, wearing amass, etc. isn’t just about you, it’s about everyone around you as well.
But, then again, young people, including myself long ago when I was young, have always felt invulnerable. Certainly, if we didn’t, we wouldn’t do some of the silly things we did when we were young. 🙂
James B
Unlike BOH’s amusement with your attempts at sarcasm, there is a dangerous, erroneous statement in your last paragraph. Here’s what happens when a Governor decides that CV-19 is no big deal and you decide that you, because of age, are somehow immune from a serious case of Covid:
“AdventHealth officials in (Florida) shared several striking stats during their Thursday briefing on the ongoing coronavirus pandemic. The Central Florida hospital group noted that half of their record-breaking 1620 COVID-19 hospitalizations were under the age of 40.
“Relatively healthy individuals… are getting quite sick. Some of them have to be on ventilators and some have died,” said AdventHealth epidemiologist Dr. Vincent Hsu said at AdventHealth’s weekly Thursday briefing, per a report from the Orlando Sentinel.
David B
To James B –
I do not say that young and healthy people never get seriously sick or die from COVID. Even one or two in a thousand times millions of infections equals several hundred, even a few thousand who do. The media does write stories about the other 999 who either had no or just mild symptoms and moved on. That’s not much of a COVID scare story. I just read the stats that are published. And the stats reflect that they have much great chance of ending up in the hospital or morgue from vehicle crashes.
If the Blog Guys will allow, here is a link to US cumulative COVID deaths broken down by age through August 18. 2021.
Maybe those stats will suddenly skew younger at some point, but in the meantime, I suggest you just ignore what I have to say and I will extend you the same courtesy.
RIch
1) This will only work for me if Hawaii recognizes Pfizer and other CDC recognized vaccinations given in other countries. A government form or a medical transcript needs to be acceptable, otherwise foreigners will not be able to eat.
2) The experience of the Delta variant or Indian Strain is that it affects primarily those who refuse to get vaccinated. Where infections do occur, the strain is a lot less virulent than previous ones. It is easier to transmit but causes far less serious infection requiring less intubations and causing far less deaths.
3) The State needs to bring back masks, social distancing and pre flight tests. It worked.
BOH. Love this site. The term Vaccination Passport sounds similar to Common Pass and Clear and other complicated phone apps. Is this the direction you think you Hawaii is headed?
The Mayor was a bit short of the details, wasn’t he? What I can tell you is that while we were on the Big Island last week we did one typical “tourist” thing. We went on an ATV ride. When we checked in, they had us show them our information from Safe Travels. Note that they were CLEAR when we signed up that that was what they were going to do. They also made it clear that masks and social distancing were required. All this well before we even left on our trip since I signed up for it a month ahead of time. On the Safe Travels website, you could see the green check mark that showed we were exempt from quarantine, as well as the fact that this was because we were vaccinated. The issue is going to be with how you prove that test within 48 hours? So, I would say, just get vaccinated before you go, and your life will be much easier.
State is putting scotch tape on a major leak. Granted, no one will be happy with a lockdown. But if we don’t do it now for at least three weeks, we’ll be talking about this again, again, and again for months.
As a former longtime resident of Hawai’i, I would like to come “home” to visit with friends and take care of some business but all the rules are just too much for me. I’m fully vaccinated with Pfizer but received them in Mexico and HI is not accepting that. Will there no longer be international visiors welcome?
As a reader of this column for several years and former kama’aina, I don’t understand why people don’t visit the thousands of beautiful parks attractions, etc on the continent. Of course, there is no place like the Hawaiian Islands and I’m extremely lucky to have born and raised on Oahu. Visit Hawaii later, hopefully after this mess goes away. Hawaii is still a paradise, but don’t stress out, plan your Hawaii trip for later.
Our mainland home is near Yellowstone and GTNP. Both parks had a record number of visitors this summer, despite the thick nasty smoke that chokes the mountain valleys most days since late June from all the west coast fires. Yellowstone had over 1 million visitors in July alone. This same thing is happening in many other national parks and the like, such as Glacier and southern Utah. And the same problems exist, especially lack of workers for service jobs in the surrounding areas. We depart for our island home in a few hours. Were looking forwarding to clean air. If all the Covid scare talk, vaccine passports, etc., reduces the number of tourists – all the better from my point of view. The first indicator will be how full (or empty) our flight is ….
Please can you tell me how it I vacation in your beautiful state for day two weeks, get tested before I get there does it mean I need to be tested every 48 hours ??? Thank you so much ! This may be our fifth time there and would like everyone to be safe 🙂 thank you again for your comments
The testing is for non-vaccinated and only applies to the things we said – restaurants and other activities on Oahu. So if that is what you are referring to, the answer is yes.
What about those who have had Covid and recovered? The newest study out of Israel shows vaccinated are 13 times more likely to get Covid than those with natural immunity. They also are more likely to be hospitalized compared to those with natural immunity. So can we show our proof of recovery? We have a trip planned in October to bring my mom for her birthday & all adults have been vaccinated or have natural immunity. Looks like we may cancel & take a trip elsewhere.
Exactly, a pointer to these studies would be nice. Here’s one to a study that shows exactly the opposite. That, while natural immunity gained through surviving COVID is good, together with the vaccine it is great. The only question that remains is one shot or two for those folks. npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/30/1032520934/immunity-to-covid-19-could-last-longer-than-youd-think
Mary K
Agree–what study? At least 10 people in my family (including myself and my husband) have had Covid and are fully vaccinated. Several people I work with as well. None have had severe reactions from the vaccine. Yes, some of us felt tired and/or had fever and aches after the vaccine, but those all subsided within 36 hours.
Richard C
The reason there’s been no test offered for post covid infection immunity is the government along with big pharma went all in on vaccinations as away to control covid.
Could you imagine Fauci coming out in saying the best way to reach herd immunity would be for healthy individuals under 40 should get together and have covid infection parties.
Pfizer, Modena and Johnson & Johnson stocks would crash.
Funny thing is the under 40 infection parties probably would work.
Richard, congrats on getting the vaccine it will protect you from severe illness and death. There are some interesting new studies out about how the vaccine provides this kind of protection long term. Sure, it’s ability to prevent any infection at all seems to have a short life span, but it’s ability to keep you out of the hospital or morgue seems to last for a very long time, perhaps even years. Take a look at this article that describes this way better than I can: npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/30/1032520934/immunity-to-covid-19-could-last-longer-than-youd-think
Also note that the article goes on to talk about if the naturally immune (i.e. those that already caught and survived COVID) should get vaccinated. The short answer is yes, but what’s up for debate is 1 shot or 2. (BTW, this only covers the mRNA vaccines).
KW
You mean a Darwin party. Or a Russian roulette party. Of course, Florida. Eyeroll.
I hope the islands can overcome this and get their population vaccinated so we can all move on from this.
Aloha!
Natural immunity always wins out, reality is, not many have such strong natural immunity to not even get the virus. Many with natural immunity still get COVID-19, are asymmetric and unknowingly pass on the virus. And yes some vaccinated also can get COVID-19 albeit with reduced symptoms and less hospitalization AND possibly spread COVID-19. But it best to -at minimum, get vaccinated, help reduce death and help reduce the spread of this terrible PAN [“all the people”] demic. This anti-vax ploy/ rant is not about “freedom”, its about hubris and self aggrandizement pure and simple. The desire to get the world vaccinated is the desire to help our human family –
[ pandemic – pan All – dēmos people ]
We are lucky in the “West” many many countries don’t experience the freedom we are having during this worldwide scourge. They still experience weekly or monthly lockdowns, curfews, fines for being on the street after 5PM, restricting only one family member out of the house at a time. No work,
limited work, etc. We in the developed world have most of these freedoms they lack, and will never experience for years. A major cause of this partial normalcy that we experience is because of vaccinations. Vaccinations aren’t a panacea, but they help even those who rail against it for self aggrandizement experience more freedom than those countries who don’t have enough vaccines to have some sort of normalcy. Shame on those who profess freedom with this false information. Shame on you!
With all due respect, and we’ve rescheduled our trip from August to April, stop all travel. If residents leave the island, don’t allow them to return without a quarantine AND a negative test.
It’s painful and necessary. Not doing so prolongs the problem.
So, if I here what is being said, I would need to be tested at least three times a week if I eat out or visit these types of businesses on a regular basis. Does this make any sense?
BTW: Thank you for your continual updates BOH!!! As a result from following your publication, we have successfully completed a nice visit to Kauai. Thank you!
By September 13th there will be a decline pretty much to what it was a before July. So this ridiculous mandate as well as the fact that 85 percent of those that can be vaccinated have been. So what’s next? What other freedoms will people give away? Pretty sad actually. That’s the problem when people inherit rights and take things for granted and never had to work for them.
Florida cases on the decline.. California cases on the rise…. go figure. Which State is less depressing.. Oh and then there’s Hawaii. They don’t know which end is up.
Please stop with the misinformation. Both Florida and California have leveled out however at very different levels! As of today 9/1, Florida is at 97 per 100,000 and California 35 per 100,000. Very different! Here in the Bay Area near San Francisco, we are at 18 per 100,000 with 80% of adults fully vaccinated… Vaccines and sensible policies work.
To quote the LA Times “More than 80% of eligible Californians have now received at least one dose of COVID-19 vaccine, a milestone Gov. Gavin Newsom characterized as a “momentous occasion” that nevertheless underscored that more needed to be done.
That level of vaccine coverage among residents 12 and older ranks ninth out of all states, according to data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
California’s partial-inoculation share of 80.6% outpaces the rates in Pennsylvania, at 80%; New York, 78%; Florida, 73.1%; and Texas, 68.6%, federal figures show. States with even higher rates are mostly in New England, as well as Hawaii and New Mexico.”
As the habit of many who post false information, here’s the lead story from the Miami Herald:
The MH reported Monday that the state’s shift in how it reported deaths gave the appearance that the pandemic was declining, based on analysis of Florida data conducted by the newspaper along with el Nuevo Herald.
Shivani Patel, a social epidemiologist and assist professor at Emory University, told the Herald that the shift was “extremely problematic,” and created an “artificial decline” in recent deaths without context.
She said it was especially troublesome because the shift came amid a spike in COVID-19 cases, giving off the appearance that “we are doing better than we are.”
I guess since BOH allows disinformation, those who actually study the data will need to continue to post.
Delta is infecting mostly unvaccinated under 40’s who are of the understanding if infected it won’t kill them, they will avoid any vaccination side affects and gain immunity.
I do business with these people they aren’t the sharpest tools in the draw. They’re more concerned with a perfect selfie and getting likes.
They get most of the information from Facebook and instagram influencers.
Last weekend I spent 3 days at a county fair huge crowds of under 40’s mostly in their 20’s partied like rockstars. My guess 80 to 90 percent weren’t vaccinated.
At this point I believe a vaccine passport isn’t targeting the main source of spread on Oahu. Young people will circumvent the passport continue with raves and house parties.
Could be wrong but I thought federal law guaranteed unencumbered passage between states. Not saying the Vax passport isn’t a good effort to fight covid, but I do wonder if it’s legal.
For the unvaccinated there are other options for meals if you are staying in Waikiki. For breakfast try using the microwave in your hotel room for oatmeal and if no microwave the coffee devices can also be used to make oatmeal, for lunch the abc stores do have sandwiches and for dinner there are sone nice food carts and of course Burger King and McDonald’s or breakdown and get vaccinated.
Something is seriously amiss if proof of natural immunity due to previous infection is not accepted. ALL of the evidence now is that natural immunity provides much better protection even than vaccines. If natural immunity is not recognized, then this is not science, it’s authoritarians grasping at straws.
The Uk Coronavirus Immunology Consortium (UK-CIC) and the British Society for Immunology reported that they looked at what parts of the immune system are involved in generating a protective response against SARS-CoV-2, as well as after vaccination. It’s likely that for most people vaccination against COVID-19 will induce more effective and longer lasting immunity than that induced by natural infection with the virus. Even if you’ve had COVID-19, you’re recommended to get the vaccine because it will boost whatever immunity you have from natural infection.
Yup, here’s a really good article that explain all this better than I ever could. npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/30/1032520934/immunity-to-covid-19-could-last-longer-than-youd-think
BTW, getting natural immunity via COVID parties is like playing Russian roulette with a couple of rounds in the gun.
I think that this is a great idea, and I hope they will implement it statewide. I just returned from Hawaii, and I saw a lot of people not wearing masks, not social distancing, etc. BTW, that was mostly Tourists that I saw. I think that what’s happening is that COVID is spreading on the islands, and something has to be done to stop it before the hospitals and morgues are completely overwhelmed like they are in some of the low vax states like Florida. I haven’t seen the complete list yet, but I think that the vaccine passport should cover, quite simply, anywhere that more than a few people gather. So besides bars, restaurants, gyms, etc., it should include grocery stores, drug stores, Any retail establishment that serves the public, and any workplace as well.
You can recover from a bad business year or downturn in revenue, in fact many business’s are reinventing themselves to be better then they ever were and are well positioned for the future……you cannot recover from dying and the people that lose a loved one to Covid suffer a lot more then someone having a difficult business year….I for one for one am happy to see the people that are Covid or Vaccine deniers boycott Hawaii and the thoughtful less fingerpointing people support Hawaii.
Time will heal all though and the more people that get vaccinated the sooner that will happen.
A recent study out of Israel indicated that those who have had COVID and recovered, but did not get vaccinated, actually have a “stronger and longer lasting” immunity than those who have been fully vaccinated. And the mRNA vaccines lose 50% of their efficacy after 4-6 months. Based on this latest study, and confirming studies conducted by other agencies, it makes little sense to allow only those vaccinated a free pass. Also, Dr. Fauci recently said that tests on infected vaccinated (breakthrough cases) and unvaccinated individuals revealed an equal amount of virus in both sets. In other words, those vaccinated can carry and transmit the virus just as easily as those unvaccinated. Consequently, it makes sense to forget the inane vaccine passports entirely and just stick with antigen and molecular testing.
Actually they are discovering that the vaccine provides very long term protection against severe illness. npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/30/1032520934/immunity-to-covid-19-could-last-longer-than-youd-think
They quote their sources, which is more than some guy with a YouTube video from his basement typically does. Read the article, then look at the studies themselves instead of just rejecting it all out of hand.
Your post would be a bit more accurate if you completed the results from the study:
“However, vaccines can add an extra boost to protection in people who recovered from COVID-19. Results showed that a single vaccine dose with natural immunity provided greater protection against reinfection than people with natural immunity alone.”
Other studies by the NIH, The British Society of Immunology and others concluded the following:
“It’s likely that for most people vaccination against COVID-19 will induce more effective and longer lasting immunity than that induced by natural infection with the virus. Even if you’ve had COVID-19, you’re recommended to get the vaccine because it will boost whatever immunity you have from natural infection.”
Please beware of posts where sources are not cited or study results are edited.
Hawaii is Bankrupt, their Unemployment Compensation is more the $500,000,000.00 upside down, hence Ige and other Governors (NY, NJ, Ct., Pa., Ill., Ca., NM) standing in line, any Common Denominators? “48 Hours”, so every other day, one goes for a Test so they can spend $ in Hawaii! We’ve postponed from February ’20, September ’20, May ’21 to now February ’22, we still have time for Sanity to take hold, but what will be left, we will see and decide at Christmas. The Moana has been our home away from home in Oahu since 1988 (36 Stays), with maybe the Hyatt another 8 times and Marriott 6, so we’ve done it, Hawaii is a special place, but not the only place. Hawaii needs to put something in their Infrastructure if they can’t support Hospital’s, Dr.’s and what of Nurses, and the 1,200 First Responders in Fire and Police suing Governor Ige.
We have 2 timeshares on Maui, which we continue to pay the high maintenance fees every January. My husband and I are not getting the shot, but have no problem with wearing the masks or doing the tests. So with all the regulations we may have to cancel our vacation again this year. The sad part of all of this is, we still have to pay and have absolutely no other options.. We have gone every year since 1986 and love the islands..
I can see a lot of people canceling their trips to the island with the new 48 hour test. A lot of people were worried about the 72 hour. I have cancelled my trip for nov 1 because of the unknown if the will close the island down. We come 3-4 times a year to go diving and always eat at mom and pop places we also try to use the locals anytime we have a chance. I worry about them even more with all this possible closure. Best of luck Hawaii
So, 72 hours for travel, then on top of that within 48 hours of going to restaurants, bars, gyms, commercial boats (like Capt Andy’s), etc? Ridiculous.
Not speaking for Alan, but the problem for any unvaxxed visitor is you you be constantly taking tests your entire trip, not just the initial one before you leave.. that’s not practical for enjoying a week or two. Plus, what if you test positive. Now you are stuck. Food trucks and fast food lines will get even longer. Time will tell if this helps or hurts restaurants and other impacted businesses, like local gyms
The Delta Surge is peaking now and it will make it look like this mandate saved the day!
The mayor can walk abound like a super hero, and eventually win the next election touting his great accomplishments! he is a smart.
Infections come and go. Almost on predictable schedules.
UK surge foreshadowed the FL surge decline.. And just like clockwork it’s happening. The same will occur in Hawaii. And in the Fall NY/MI and other northern States will have the same end results.
If you extend Blangiardi’s order to gatherings of more than ten people (weddings, funerals, organizers of rave parties as just happened on North Shore, etc.)then you might be close to attacking the surest contributor of the Delta variant — the local population that refuse to be vaccinated. Mitch Roth on Hawaii Island has already id’ed the major source and ordered that parks and beaches on Hawaii Island will not allow tents, canopies, or pop-ups and restricts the size of gatherings to 10 people.
Though in a hyper-religious environment as is most of Hawaii, the order should include churches, but would likely never pass Constitutional muster. Living in rural Hawaii, I know many neighbors who will never be vaccinated and, sadly, Marshallese and other extended multi-family households who buy into the anti-vax hysteria, then take the virus home to spread.
I don’t agree with Ige’s muddled pronouncements, but if you want a nutty CV-19 policy, look no further than FL. That Gov. is now de-funding school districts that don’t follow his policy to let the virus spread through children, no less, denying private sector decisions about vaccinations, their employees and customers, then rushing in to support treatment drugs that have to be administered in the very beginning of symptoms to prove effective.
Right. So, let’s just party down, unvaccinated, taxing an already overwhelmed medical system, now cancelling all elective surgeries while taxing the medical professionals such that many are quitting a life of service while we import a new batch of nurses, assistants, etc.
Tell you what. I’ll let the unvaxed continue with this farce that you just penned, if you’ll agree that all unvaccinated agree they will not ever agree to be hospitalized should they contract CV-19.
Then folks with cancer and heart disease and hospitals treating them won’t have to face the terrible choice of denying admission from lack of ICU.
Aloha Greg M. Although you may wish it to be true (for whatever fanatical reason), vaccines DO, IN FACT, work. Hence we have vaccines for small pox, measles, mumps, etc. Please refrain from commenting if you are going to post blatant falsehoods. It does NO ONE any good. Mahalo.
It actually doesn’t help with the spread of the virus. It did with the original strain but just as the flu does, covid is mutating, among vaccinated and unvaccinated and yes, vaccinated people are ending up in the hospital. The CDC is no longer tracking breakthrough infections so the numbers are not accurate. Medical freedom. Period.
No one is taking away your freedom to make decisions. What you seem to want is freedom from the consequences of your choices. Personally I’m tired of having the consequences of others choices forced on me. So I support vaccine passports. If you choose not to vaccinate then the consequences of that decision should be entirely on you by being separated from the rest of civil society. The best way to do that is to effectively quarantine you with vaccine passports for any gathering of more that 10 people. That would include everything including weddings, family reunions, restaurants, bars, any retail establishments, etc.
Covid Vaccine is NOT the same as the tried and true vaccines for MMR, Polio, Hep B, Dtap, etc. If you think they are, you will sadly be disappointed. So sad what is happening in Hawaii. As another commentator mentioned, “thanks for the memories.” Doesn’t look like this family will be returning any time remotely soon.
Several people are making this point. If you doubt the efficacy of mRNA technology or don’t trust it, then you and all of the others who miss the point have an alternative. The J&J approach uses the same dead virus as in many other vaccines, just like the technology applied to MMR, Polio, HepB&C, etc.
Is there any wonder disinformation rules the day when people can’t even face the simple fact that there is an alternative to mRNA?
obviously you and 55 others are greatly misinformed. These vaccines are not the same as the other vaccines and are new mRNA tech and have embryo stem cells as part of its base.
The vaccine is there to limit potential viral load but it only stops the severity of the sickness not the spread. And CDC has failed to follow through on proper tracing so we don’t have a accurate scaled data set to analyze, more like hypothesis and conclusions.
Most people don’t even understand the core of science.
Stay up to date on the fasts as they are constantly being updated as more data is acquired. Also keep an open mind as what we know today could be far from the truth in 3-6 months just like that has been happened over the last 18 months.
I decided it would be irresponsible to travel under such conditions. Seems things will get worse so why travel?
A lot of my friends have gotten sick even though vaccinated and they are far too reckless not caring about spreading it. Quite a few of my friends are worried as they thought this wasn’t supposed to happen and are not traveling/partying anymore.
I will stay home and be sensible.
I see no way to quail teh desire of people doing what they want when they want. You can’t stop em all without crippling the economy and community.
Greg, Not only do they work, they actually work better (at least the mRNA ones) than had been previously thought. At least in terms of preventing serious illness and death. Take a look at this article about the long-term effectiveness of the vaccine. npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/30/1032520934/immunity-to-covid-19-could-last-longer-than-youd-think It turns out that while the short term effectiveness of prevention is exactly that, short (6-8 months), at the same time your body is building additions weapons that prevent serious illness. That addresses EXACTLY the issue that Hawaii is concerned about, i.e., the hospitals and morgues filling up, like in Florida right now.
Unless you can show us your credentials as a PhD or MD in immunology and the research to back up your claims, please STOP with the ridiculous claims. It’s not true, and people such as you that perpetuate disinformation on the internet as a main reason that more people are not vaxxed. Just stop, Greg M. Just Stop.
Interesting editorial in the Star Advertiser, apparently restaurants are including “de escalation training” ahead of implementation of the vaccine passport.
With hospitals and staff here stretched to the max and triage tents being set up, decisions are having to be made as to who gets what level of care. Incoming patients can no longer be guaranteed that everything that could be done for them will be done. In addition patients in need of important elective surgery and potentially life saving testing are being denied. The Covid patients in the hospitals here, like elsewhere are overwhelmingly unvaccinated.
Yet something as simple as letting vaccinated people dine in restaurants and requesting unvaccinated people to simply use the restaurants carry out option as a means to reduce spread has gotten pushback. The simple act of common sense steps to take that support the business economy and also would help to reduce the spread of Covid is too much for some.
Auwe!
John W., It’s a shame that certain elements in our society have decided, for their own advantage, to politicize this pandemic. Now we are ALL paying for that, and it looks like our ability to finally end this is in serious jeopardy. People have messed around long enough that we are now seeing variants that might well be resistant to the current vaccines. The new Mu variant out of Columbia being an example. It’s showing up here in LA already, and I expect it to show up in Hawai soon, if it’s not there already. The only way that Hawaii can avoid it is if they go to pre-flight testing again, only this time for ANYONE flying into the state resident or visitor doesn’t matter. That’s the only way to keep the virus out.
Fauci was just on saying that in his opinion this will be a yearly 3 shot regumine going forward. Everyone good with that? That’s vaccine cards going to fill up pretty fast.
Where did you hear that? What I heard him says was “There was good reason to believe that a third dose “will actually be durable, and if it is durable, then you’re going to have very likely a three-dose regimen being the routine regimen”. Durable, as in lasts, as in not every year. The problem is going be that if enough people don’t get vaccinated that we will continue to see variant, and eventually variants that the current vaccine isn’t effective with. In that case, a new version of the vaccine will, indeed, be needed. Worst case is that we end up in the same position we are in now with the Flu were, indeed, we need to get a 3 shot regimen every year. That would be the Worst case. We can avoid that by more people just getting vaccinated so that the mutations stop.
I recall Hawaii undertaking stronger similar measures over a year ago.
The result? A billion dollar loss to the economy, a significant detraction from Hawaii’s tourism efforts, and a Hawaii awash in infections.
What has changed so we may expect different results this time? Vaccines, of course.
As of August 30, Hawaii had 45 percent of its population not fully vaccinated and 24 percent without having received any vaccine. And that is without consideration of the new 8 month “booster” requirement announcement.
I’m sorry, but I don’t grasp how having one’s papers inspected at “Checkpoint Charlie” or having a timer set when one steps in to a local fast food establishment for a burger lead to significantly improving Hawaii’s vaccination or infection rate.
Good luck with this Hawaii.
New numbers out falling pretty quick like I said by sept13 they will be below 150. Never should have stopped the 72 hour test, then it took them over 2 months to after it was pretty obvious what was going on. So now they will be implementing something completely useless that makes things more complex. So what happens when the original vaccine has worn off due to waning immunity? Does the card need to be updated? then those that are unvaccinated, or vaccinated without the shot are banned? How long does this keep rolling? Just put the 72 hour test back in and end it.
By Sept 13th, the Labor Day surge will be going on. I doubt any locals are cancelling plans for family gatherings unless they are already sick.
Airlines should require tests to fly, anywhere, any direction.
To get people vaccinated, there need to be more monetary penalties like Delta airlines – $200 month more for health insurance (bravo). And vaxxed only stadiums + concerts, etc.
When do the obese pay monetary penalties they account for more hospital usage and cause 75 of covid issues ?
Where do you get those numbers? What the hospitals, and unfortunately more and more the morgues, are full of are unvaccinated people. It’s pretty simple, get vaccinated and don’t end up in the hospital or dead. Then you can also travel to Hawaii with very little in the way of hassle. Choose not to, and life is going to get harder and harder for you as the rest of us who are tired of paying the price for the choice you make to remain unvaccinated put more and more restriction into place. In other words, more and more “vaccine passports” are going to be popping up all over the place, including in Hawaii.
Natural Immunity, which hundreds of thousands of people have is 700 Times more Preventative than the no longer useful and outdated Vax ( I know because my brother in law is CEO of a local hospital in California and his sister is CNO of an even bigger one- I know the facts on the ground)…NO one seems to want to talk about Natural Immunity which throughout history has always been preferred to any kind of concoction of injections. To Discriminate against those people not only goes against common sense, logic and reason but is Discrimination of the highest order! Just do the 72 hour test coming/going and let logic reign and allow Facts/fear.
I’ll agree with you insofar as it goes. People who have had, and survived, COVID should be given a “vaccine card” so that they can go about their business just like someone who has been vaccinated. As you say, they have naturally developed antibodies against the virus.
Having said that, there’s a lot of misinformation in your post I’d like to address, at least in reference to the mRNA based vaccines. First of all, the vaccine is HIGHLY effective. This has been shown over and over again. But it’s effectiveness seems to come in 2 parts. The first part is its ability to prevent infection at all. It’s most effective at this early on, and this ability degrades over time. This is why we are talking about a 3rd shot after 8 months. BTW, the studies done on this seem to suggest that natural immunity is good, but combined with the vaccine is GREAT. The question is should those folks who have had COVID get 1 or 2 shots. It’s looking like 1 is enough, but 2 doesn’t hurt. Ok, so that’s part 1. The second part is more long term. While the ability to protect against any infection at all degrades over time during that time the body is also building a long term ability to prevent severe illness. That ability can last for YEARS. If you’re interested in more information about this take a look at this link which describes all this in more detail and better than I can. npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/30/1032520934/immunity-to-covid-19-could-last-longer-than-youd-think
Hello Joerg H.
Good information I think we all should consider.
At present, I don’t think we have sufficient consistent data regarding vaccines in the field to know how effective or ineffective they are over much of a window of time. This is due to them chasing a moving target that morphs relatively easily and quickly. Flu virus comes to mind. What may be effective today may not be so tomorrow. Regardless, it is a very good base to work from.
That said, I agree the availble evidence shows current vaccines do increase protection against some currently identified forms as well as mitigate the effects of an infection. This being the case, they can act to relieve our medical facilities and slow things to a more manageable pace.
But I think we might agree many must be vaccinated for this to work.
The three primary reasons cited as to why individuals do not get the COVID vaccine.
1. They don’t trust government.
2. They don’t trust COVID vaccines.
3. They don’t trust vaccines of any type.
In the context of the issues presented in header of this BOH thread, I suggest: vaccine cards do not fix this; checkpoints do not fix this; test do not fix this; lock downs do not fix this; only having 15 minutes in McDonald’s does not fix this. Promulgating “them and us” policies do not fix this.
In fact I truly wonder if these “quick fixes”, applied without open discussion and clear simple medical explanation as to necessity, are not assisting in causing this problem.
We may well be feeding the very attitudes we need to starve.
Heyward, while your take on “they don’t trust vaccines” is true it ignores why. This got politicized. A lot of fingerpointing and conspiracy lies were spread in the name of galvanizing a political base. We have become quite divided on the internet and for many people that’s their reality, now we are living with the consequences of political demonization of our fellow Americans.
Heyward,
I agree with John W’s comment about the lack of trust having been driven by the politicization of a public health issue. If only we had some kind of government agency that we spent billions of dollars on and that hired some of the most preeminent people in the field to help us work through all this and give us advice on how to handle the pandemic …
Nita, while your premise that natural immunity should be looked at is valid, when you throughout comments like “700 times” and “outdated vaccine” you damage your credibility
Because there is no money in natural immunity.
A lot more people would die, but for you?…maybe that’s the price we have to pay to get to “natural immunity”… vaccinations eradicated small pox world wide,
not “natural immunity”
Think about that, when you dream of “natural immunity” wiping this PANdemic out of existence.
As long as Hawaii continues to push their stupidity concerning vaccine passports, I will not be back. I still own 3 properties in Hawaii and I would love to visit them but I will NOT be blackmailed into taking this poisonous jab just to satisfy these politician’s tyranny. They are destroying Hawaii businesses, families, and lives. There is no aloha anymore in Hawaii and I grieve for the people of Hawaii. Let the lawsuits begin!
(Edited – warning on not adhering to https://beatofhawaii.com/comment-policy/
Goldie, you are on record elsewhere spreading misinformation, a lot of it and from way deep in the rabbit hole (no 40,000 people have not died from the vaccine)…be careful what you say when you go into “I’m gonna sue!” attack mode. There’s consequences for lying in court.
btw there is plenty of Aloha still in Hawaii….look past the angry fingerpointers on the internet and you’ll find many many people helping others unconditionally here in Hawaii. As always, in Hawaii a little respect gets a lot in return.
Goldi the vaccine passports and everything Hawaii is trying to do is to simply save lives. Obviously if everyone was vaccinated the overflowing hospitals wouldn’t be an issue. You believe some pretty crazy stuff about vaccines to support your decision but the safety and effectiveness of getting vaccinated is irrefutable ( by that I mean the overwhelming support of the vaccines from the medical and scientific community vs random Facebook posts and misinformation being used to manipulate people). That said, human nature being what it is it’s simply not possible to get everyone vaccinated. So the mandates that arise out of trying to save lives are necessary, especially in Hawaii were we have limited hospital space.
As far as businesses suffering, for sure many are having a bad year (to put it mildly) but interesting enough many are reinventing themselves and yes prospering. I know of restaurants that switched to take out only and with no need for waiters, bus staff, dishwasher’s etc they became more profitable. Many other businesses are reinventing themselves in other ways and well poised for success when we recover so yes Hawaii will recover.
You are on the mainland and spreading lies about the vaccine and yet the quickest route to Hawaii returning to normal is getting people vaccinated. If you are fighting against the vaccine you are fighting against full business recovery. The bottom line on the shutdowns that saved lives is this…you can recover from a business downturn, not so much from dying.
Aloha-
Segregation is returning to America – we’ve just substituted “vaccinated” for “white” and “unvaccinated” for “colored”. In Hawaii, you could say the ancient caste system is returning: Ige is King, Green is Alii, the public health directors and mayors are Kahuna, the obediently vaxxed (1x, 2x, 3x, etc… – whatever the Kahuna decree) are the Makaainana, and the unvaxxed are the Kauwa – ostracized and persecuted. Is this really what we want our society to become? Please wake up, friends!
Mahalo.
Hello Becky G.
I fear you correct.
I am a senior from Georgia and well remember the segregation present here in my earlier days. Starting almost 60 years ago we began to fix this, not perfectly but pretty well. Yet the impact from it exist here in my small rural community even today.
I suggest the distrust and fear arising from segregation, even de facto type segregation as with this, will take firm root in Hawaii. When one is denied and denigrated by others it doesn’t matter as much the why of it, but rather the who of it. Being in a segregated class burns and scars the soul and is a human condition not easily forgotten nor forgiven.
Given their history and culture, I’m very surprised Hawaiians pursue this.
I think that’s a bit of an exaggeration. What do you suggest that Hawaii do to prevent their hospitals from getting overrun? It’s easy to say what it is you don’t like, but tell me what alternative you suggest? Do nothing isn’t an alternative, BTW, if that’s where you’re going with this. We can see that in Florida where people are dropping like flies because of that attitude.
Yet it’s the vaccinated that are working hard to help the unvaccinated. The Pacific Islander community does have a higher unvaccinated rate….which simply means they have been victimized more by misinformation then they deserve. But they are hardly the only ones…. a significant percentage of our country is vulnerable to misinformation and baseless conspiracy theories….. What is happening is misinformationists are victimizing people. As a result people are dying because they believe a random facebook post and then make their mind up on that alone.
Assuming that you are white, perhaps now you have a better appreciation for systemic racism, otherwise known as walking, driving, hanging out, talking while black.
Hi BOH,
Any more word on pre travel covid test for the ones who have been vaxed? We’re flying out to Kauai on sept 12th. You have to start trying to get an appt for the test sun – tues for Thur! They go fast….. We did use The Clear app in case we needed it and it was a breeze! Thanks for all your help!!
Hi Al.
No word on any further changes coming at this time. Sorry.
Aloha.
Remember trust the science
The US Food and Drug Administration announced the resignations of two top vaccine officials on Tuesday, and reports said the two were leaving in anger over the administration’s plan to roll out COVID-19 booster shots before officials had a chance to approve it.
Wrong. The two submitted their letters with no explanation. What you are referring to are reports from anonymous sources. additional sources contradicted those sources saying that the two resigned over a disagreement with their superior.
When do the obesity cards come out? 75 percent of deaths and hospitalizations are in those that are obese and most of those are diabetic and have an average of 2.6 comorbidity. So when do these cards come out. You dont need to be obese it’s a choice. Reduce obesity you reduce cases. This would be especially helpful in restaurants. Sorry you can only order from the salad side of the menu, water only no soda. On planes they’d have to buy two seats so people like me wouldn’t be bothered by them. They also put more wear and tear on beds in hotels are more dangerous to lift in elevators so along with resort fee should be an obese fee. Kinda see where this is going?
Refreshing, a Bankrupt State, 99.9% dependent on Tourism and Military, has a Governor that closed it down, having the newly UN-employed savor in the States generous un-Employment (also $500,000,000.00 upside down) + The Federal Stipend of a $300.00/Wk. Bonus rather then going back to work! A Vaccine that after 4-6 months is at 40% Effective Rate, with Vaxxed and un-Vaxxed being equal in the opportunity to contract. Follow the Israel Study. Ask Pfizer about Chantix? The Pfizer that got FDA Approval, is not the same as what was given, that would have not been approved until 2023. This is a not Salk, Measles, TB vaccine! The Governor has bankrupted Business that will not return, one of the top Dinng Establishments, Alan Wongs, through in the Towel, Loves Bakery a tradition for 100 years. 1,200 Hundred First Responders from Fire and Police, are not taking the Vaccination. Now there talking about restricting travel after Southwest said yes, to the Tourism Board, Hotels have Reservations, how do they decide who get’s the X-# of Rooms? The State will need a Federal Bailout of immense proportion, and it’s only the high unemployment States that want the $, NY, NJ, Mi., Ill., Ca., NM and Hi., all over 7% because of bad Governance. Good on you Liam!
Dont forget the rail who could have seen that disaster coming lol
You are Completely Correct! My brother in law is CEO of a local Hospital in OC, California and his sister is CNO (Chief Nursing Officer) and almost 100% of Covid deaths had either Obesity or Diabetes as the most prevalent co-conditions! Bring on the Obesity Gold Star or Proof of non-Diabetic Gold Star and you will reduced Covid Deaths dramatically. Unfortunately, I think the Island may have high rates of both in it’s local citizenry as once my sister had a gall bladder issue and ended up at Queen’s Hospital in Oahu and she said Every single person who she talked to asked her if she was diabetic. No she is not, and yes she was fine:) In her observation she told us ” I think there must be a Big problem of Diabetes on the island” I am sure there is data one could track down to confirm or deny. Either way Medical discrimination is still discrimination
You’re missing an important difference. Obesity only hurts the person that’s obese. What you describe as hurting others are merely inconveniences. COVID, on the other hand, is a virus that can kill you that you can spread to others. Big difference there…
Not following your logic I could make a case otherwise.
Joerg,
Correct me if I am mistaken, but don’t you have many other comments on this blog site pointing out that the unvaxxed are selfishly taking up hospital resources that may be needed for non-COVID related emergencies of the more deserving vaxxed?
If being vaxxed doesn’t necessarily stop you from catching COVID, but reduces the severity, can’t the same thing be said about being in good physical shape and not a human beach ball?
It needs to be said: The Large Marges and Henry Hippos are disproportionately ending up in the hospital with COVID, thereby selfishly putting the Slim Jims and Kale Kathys at risk. Not to mention the visual blight when POGs (people of girth) squeeze into their beach shorts (or worse). Talk about whale watching.
I say we create “fit” passports (could be sponsored by Jenny Craig) along with a lockdown of all donut shops, fast food joints, ice cream shops, and the supermarket isles that have the crackers and cookies. Anyone over 220 pounds must wear two masks whenever they try to eat or drink anything except water. And no cheating using straws unless they hate the ocean. It’s a public health emergency. This is no time for the “fat shaming” propaganda that leads gullible people to believe that Jabba the Hut is a normal body shape. Poor Mini Mike was ridiculed for trying to outlaw Big Gulps of soda, but in hindsight, that may have saved thousands of lives.
And what about old people, since they obviously pose a much higher risk of being hospitalized. Pretty darn selfish. And they smell a little funny, too, according to sources or studies or science or something. Time for “youth” passports for those under 50 (could be sponsored by Logan’s Run).
Very cute logic.
The coffee had just kicked in.
I’m sitting here wondering if you’re just being sarcastic, if you really believe this? As you point out, it’s the unvaccinated that are filling up the hospitals. It’s as simple as that. Get the jab, and do your part. If you don’t, well, then life is going to get harder for you the way things are going. All of this other stuff, is nothing more than red herrings and whataboutism.
I will try to use my /sarc/ key next time.
Sure, the unvaxxed will be treated poorly by others. Whether that will convince someone to get vaxxed, or just make them dig in, I don’t know.
It is not whataboutism that the obese also take up a disproportionate amount of health care resources, and in the case of COVID, apparently being obese (especially if unvaxxed) increasesones odds when it comes to who are the 1% that get hospitalized.
But 99% do not, which is likely a big reason why the unvaxxed are not as panicked as old people would like them to be. A healthy 30 year old has a better chance to end up in the ER or morgue from a car crash than COVID. This may annoy old people who have much greater risk, but it is what it is.
Hi David.
BTW, keep your levity coming. We still need it.
Aloha.
Sure thing. But, Covid paranoids don’t have a sense of humor.
OT – Going to get in line for the final afternoon convoy up the Hanalei Hill. Bistro still has their $30 Prime Rib special going on Fridays, following the 3-6 happy hour. Cant be beat on the north shore, and no I do not get any discount for the promotion.
We’re still on Mountain time, so waking up at 2 am and dead on our feet by 6 pm.
You ever do a post on jag lag for mainland visitors, especially those coming from the east coast? You know, the ones cracking the beers open before 10 am out on the beach.
I was in homedepot this morning around 10:30 here in Arizona. The young customers were mostly wearing masks and the majority of older folks had no mask on. Just an observation.
Look, I agree that obesity is an issue in this country. However, you’re conflating that problem with the vaccination issue in order to make a point that’s simply not correct. A report published Tuesday from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that, based on data out of Los Angeles County, unvaccinated people are almost five times more likely be infected and over 29 times more likely to be hospitalized with Covid-19. As for people who aren’t worried about getting COVID because they are young and healthy, that’s becoming less and less true. Cases of younger people ending up in the hospital or dying of COVID are higher with the Delta variant. Take a look at: usnews.com/news/best-states/alabama/articles/2021-08-21/nobody-should-go-through-this-delta-variant-hits-young
Last, but not least, this entire position some people are taking that “I have very little chance of getting severely ill, so to heck with it” is pretty self centered, don’t you think? Don’t forget, that if they DO get sick, and even if they don’t end up in the hospital, there’s a good chance that they will spread the disease. So getting the vaccine, wearing amass, etc. isn’t just about you, it’s about everyone around you as well.
But, then again, young people, including myself long ago when I was young, have always felt invulnerable. Certainly, if we didn’t, we wouldn’t do some of the silly things we did when we were young. 🙂
Unlike BOH’s amusement with your attempts at sarcasm, there is a dangerous, erroneous statement in your last paragraph. Here’s what happens when a Governor decides that CV-19 is no big deal and you decide that you, because of age, are somehow immune from a serious case of Covid:
“AdventHealth officials in (Florida) shared several striking stats during their Thursday briefing on the ongoing coronavirus pandemic. The Central Florida hospital group noted that half of their record-breaking 1620 COVID-19 hospitalizations were under the age of 40.
“Relatively healthy individuals… are getting quite sick. Some of them have to be on ventilators and some have died,” said AdventHealth epidemiologist Dr. Vincent Hsu said at AdventHealth’s weekly Thursday briefing, per a report from the Orlando Sentinel.
To James B –
I do not say that young and healthy people never get seriously sick or die from COVID. Even one or two in a thousand times millions of infections equals several hundred, even a few thousand who do. The media does write stories about the other 999 who either had no or just mild symptoms and moved on. That’s not much of a COVID scare story. I just read the stats that are published. And the stats reflect that they have much great chance of ending up in the hospital or morgue from vehicle crashes.
If the Blog Guys will allow, here is a link to US cumulative COVID deaths broken down by age through August 18. 2021.
statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/
Maybe those stats will suddenly skew younger at some point, but in the meantime, I suggest you just ignore what I have to say and I will extend you the same courtesy.
1) This will only work for me if Hawaii recognizes Pfizer and other CDC recognized vaccinations given in other countries. A government form or a medical transcript needs to be acceptable, otherwise foreigners will not be able to eat.
2) The experience of the Delta variant or Indian Strain is that it affects primarily those who refuse to get vaccinated. Where infections do occur, the strain is a lot less virulent than previous ones. It is easier to transmit but causes far less serious infection requiring less intubations and causing far less deaths.
3) The State needs to bring back masks, social distancing and pre flight tests. It worked.
BOH. Love this site. The term Vaccination Passport sounds similar to Common Pass and Clear and other complicated phone apps. Is this the direction you think you Hawaii is headed?
Hi Fred.
Thank you! We honestly don’t know what way Hawaii will go in terms of apps vs. their own Safe Travels website.
Aloha.
The Mayor was a bit short of the details, wasn’t he? What I can tell you is that while we were on the Big Island last week we did one typical “tourist” thing. We went on an ATV ride. When we checked in, they had us show them our information from Safe Travels. Note that they were CLEAR when we signed up that that was what they were going to do. They also made it clear that masks and social distancing were required. All this well before we even left on our trip since I signed up for it a month ahead of time. On the Safe Travels website, you could see the green check mark that showed we were exempt from quarantine, as well as the fact that this was because we were vaccinated. The issue is going to be with how you prove that test within 48 hours? So, I would say, just get vaccinated before you go, and your life will be much easier.
State is putting scotch tape on a major leak. Granted, no one will be happy with a lockdown. But if we don’t do it now for at least three weeks, we’ll be talking about this again, again, and again for months.
As a former longtime resident of Hawai’i, I would like to come “home” to visit with friends and take care of some business but all the rules are just too much for me. I’m fully vaccinated with Pfizer but received them in Mexico and HI is not accepting that. Will there no longer be international visiors welcome?
I’m 74 and vaccinated. Made 6 trips to Hawaiʻi. Even learned the Hawaiian language.
I totally oppose the idea of a vaccine passport. Big Brother doesn’t need to control every aspect of my life.
I won’t return to Hawaiʻi until this passport madness goes away.
As a reader of this column for several years and former kama’aina, I don’t understand why people don’t visit the thousands of beautiful parks attractions, etc on the continent. Of course, there is no place like the Hawaiian Islands and I’m extremely lucky to have born and raised on Oahu. Visit Hawaii later, hopefully after this mess goes away. Hawaii is still a paradise, but don’t stress out, plan your Hawaii trip for later.
Aloha.
Our mainland home is near Yellowstone and GTNP. Both parks had a record number of visitors this summer, despite the thick nasty smoke that chokes the mountain valleys most days since late June from all the west coast fires. Yellowstone had over 1 million visitors in July alone. This same thing is happening in many other national parks and the like, such as Glacier and southern Utah. And the same problems exist, especially lack of workers for service jobs in the surrounding areas. We depart for our island home in a few hours. Were looking forwarding to clean air. If all the Covid scare talk, vaccine passports, etc., reduces the number of tourists – all the better from my point of view. The first indicator will be how full (or empty) our flight is ….
Please can you tell me how it I vacation in your beautiful state for day two weeks, get tested before I get there does it mean I need to be tested every 48 hours ??? Thank you so much ! This may be our fifth time there and would like everyone to be safe 🙂 thank you again for your comments
Hi Debbie.
The testing is for non-vaccinated and only applies to the things we said – restaurants and other activities on Oahu. So if that is what you are referring to, the answer is yes.
Aloha.
What about those who have had Covid and recovered? The newest study out of Israel shows vaccinated are 13 times more likely to get Covid than those with natural immunity. They also are more likely to be hospitalized compared to those with natural immunity. So can we show our proof of recovery? We have a trip planned in October to bring my mom for her birthday & all adults have been vaccinated or have natural immunity. Looks like we may cancel & take a trip elsewhere.
You can get vaccinated, receive more protection from Covid, and avoid the 48-hour testing requirement. Simple.
The problem is, studies have also shown that it might be dangerous to have the vaccine, especially two doses, if you have natural immunity. I
I’d be happy to engage in this conversation further if you provide a source from a reputable medical professional.
“Studies show” could mean a lot of things.
Mahalo.
Exactly, a pointer to these studies would be nice. Here’s one to a study that shows exactly the opposite. That, while natural immunity gained through surviving COVID is good, together with the vaccine it is great. The only question that remains is one shot or two for those folks. npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/30/1032520934/immunity-to-covid-19-could-last-longer-than-youd-think
Agree–what study? At least 10 people in my family (including myself and my husband) have had Covid and are fully vaccinated. Several people I work with as well. None have had severe reactions from the vaccine. Yes, some of us felt tired and/or had fever and aches after the vaccine, but those all subsided within 36 hours.
The reason there’s been no test offered for post covid infection immunity is the government along with big pharma went all in on vaccinations as away to control covid.
Could you imagine Fauci coming out in saying the best way to reach herd immunity would be for healthy individuals under 40 should get together and have covid infection parties.
Pfizer, Modena and Johnson & Johnson stocks would crash.
Funny thing is the under 40 infection parties probably would work.
They are essentially trying this in Florida. Check out the hospitalization rate and death rate. They are the epicenter of COVID right now.
Hi Joe
No country or state regardless of measures taken has avoided a Delta surge.
Today Florida an open state next week it will be California a highly restrictive state. No one has come up with a solution to slowing Delta.
Delta is the reason I got vaccinated it’s so contagious that I felt no matter what precautions I took there’s to good a chance of catching it.
Richard, congrats on getting the vaccine it will protect you from severe illness and death. There are some interesting new studies out about how the vaccine provides this kind of protection long term. Sure, it’s ability to prevent any infection at all seems to have a short life span, but it’s ability to keep you out of the hospital or morgue seems to last for a very long time, perhaps even years. Take a look at this article that describes this way better than I can: npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/30/1032520934/immunity-to-covid-19-could-last-longer-than-youd-think
Also note that the article goes on to talk about if the naturally immune (i.e. those that already caught and survived COVID) should get vaccinated. The short answer is yes, but what’s up for debate is 1 shot or 2. (BTW, this only covers the mRNA vaccines).
You mean a Darwin party. Or a Russian roulette party. Of course, Florida. Eyeroll.
I hope the islands can overcome this and get their population vaccinated so we can all move on from this.
Aloha!
Natural immunity always wins out, reality is, not many have such strong natural immunity to not even get the virus. Many with natural immunity still get COVID-19, are asymmetric and unknowingly pass on the virus. And yes some vaccinated also can get COVID-19 albeit with reduced symptoms and less hospitalization AND possibly spread COVID-19. But it best to -at minimum, get vaccinated, help reduce death and help reduce the spread of this terrible PAN [“all the people”] demic. This anti-vax ploy/ rant is not about “freedom”, its about hubris and self aggrandizement pure and simple. The desire to get the world vaccinated is the desire to help our human family –
[ pandemic – pan All – dēmos people ]
We are lucky in the “West” many many countries don’t experience the freedom we are having during this worldwide scourge. They still experience weekly or monthly lockdowns, curfews, fines for being on the street after 5PM, restricting only one family member out of the house at a time. No work,
limited work, etc. We in the developed world have most of these freedoms they lack, and will never experience for years. A major cause of this partial normalcy that we experience is because of vaccinations. Vaccinations aren’t a panacea, but they help even those who rail against it for self aggrandizement experience more freedom than those countries who don’t have enough vaccines to have some sort of normalcy. Shame on those who profess freedom with this false information. Shame on you!
With all due respect, and we’ve rescheduled our trip from August to April, stop all travel. If residents leave the island, don’t allow them to return without a quarantine AND a negative test.
It’s painful and necessary. Not doing so prolongs the problem.
Agreed: proof of vaccination and require a face covering.
So, if I here what is being said, I would need to be tested at least three times a week if I eat out or visit these types of businesses on a regular basis. Does this make any sense?
BTW: Thank you for your continual updates BOH!!! As a result from following your publication, we have successfully completed a nice visit to Kauai. Thank you!
Hi Jerry.
Thanks. So glad to hear you had a good time on Kauai.
Aloha.
Your other option is to just get vaccinated.
By September 13th there will be a decline pretty much to what it was a before July. So this ridiculous mandate as well as the fact that 85 percent of those that can be vaccinated have been. So what’s next? What other freedoms will people give away? Pretty sad actually. That’s the problem when people inherit rights and take things for granted and never had to work for them.
Florida cases on the decline.. California cases on the rise…. go figure. Which State is less depressing.. Oh and then there’s Hawaii. They don’t know which end is up.
Please stop with the misinformation. Both Florida and California have leveled out however at very different levels! As of today 9/1, Florida is at 97 per 100,000 and California 35 per 100,000. Very different! Here in the Bay Area near San Francisco, we are at 18 per 100,000 with 80% of adults fully vaccinated… Vaccines and sensible policies work.
To quote the LA Times “More than 80% of eligible Californians have now received at least one dose of COVID-19 vaccine, a milestone Gov. Gavin Newsom characterized as a “momentous occasion” that nevertheless underscored that more needed to be done.
That level of vaccine coverage among residents 12 and older ranks ninth out of all states, according to data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
California’s partial-inoculation share of 80.6% outpaces the rates in Pennsylvania, at 80%; New York, 78%; Florida, 73.1%; and Texas, 68.6%, federal figures show. States with even higher rates are mostly in New England, as well as Hawaii and New Mexico.”
Disinformation alert!
As the habit of many who post false information, here’s the lead story from the Miami Herald:
The MH reported Monday that the state’s shift in how it reported deaths gave the appearance that the pandemic was declining, based on analysis of Florida data conducted by the newspaper along with el Nuevo Herald.
Shivani Patel, a social epidemiologist and assist professor at Emory University, told the Herald that the shift was “extremely problematic,” and created an “artificial decline” in recent deaths without context.
She said it was especially troublesome because the shift came amid a spike in COVID-19 cases, giving off the appearance that “we are doing better than we are.”
I guess since BOH allows disinformation, those who actually study the data will need to continue to post.
Just do it already! Stop the guessing games!
Aloha BOH Bro’s
Delta is infecting mostly unvaccinated under 40’s who are of the understanding if infected it won’t kill them, they will avoid any vaccination side affects and gain immunity.
I do business with these people they aren’t the sharpest tools in the draw. They’re more concerned with a perfect selfie and getting likes.
They get most of the information from Facebook and instagram influencers.
Last weekend I spent 3 days at a county fair huge crowds of under 40’s mostly in their 20’s partied like rockstars. My guess 80 to 90 percent weren’t vaccinated.
At this point I believe a vaccine passport isn’t targeting the main source of spread on Oahu. Young people will circumvent the passport continue with raves and house parties.
Does the above info pertain to Maui?
Could be wrong but I thought federal law guaranteed unencumbered passage between states. Not saying the Vax passport isn’t a good effort to fight covid, but I do wonder if it’s legal.
It’s legal if they don’t impede travel. This mandate is about restaurants and gatherings on Oahu only, not interstate travel.
For the unvaccinated there are other options for meals if you are staying in Waikiki. For breakfast try using the microwave in your hotel room for oatmeal and if no microwave the coffee devices can also be used to make oatmeal, for lunch the abc stores do have sandwiches and for dinner there are sone nice food carts and of course Burger King and McDonald’s or breakdown and get vaccinated.
Something is seriously amiss if proof of natural immunity due to previous infection is not accepted. ALL of the evidence now is that natural immunity provides much better protection even than vaccines. If natural immunity is not recognized, then this is not science, it’s authoritarians grasping at straws.
Another disinformation alert!
The Uk Coronavirus Immunology Consortium (UK-CIC) and the British Society for Immunology reported that they looked at what parts of the immune system are involved in generating a protective response against SARS-CoV-2, as well as after vaccination. It’s likely that for most people vaccination against COVID-19 will induce more effective and longer lasting immunity than that induced by natural infection with the virus. Even if you’ve had COVID-19, you’re recommended to get the vaccine because it will boost whatever immunity you have from natural infection.
Yup, here’s a really good article that explain all this better than I ever could. npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/30/1032520934/immunity-to-covid-19-could-last-longer-than-youd-think
BTW, getting natural immunity via COVID parties is like playing Russian roulette with a couple of rounds in the gun.
I think that this is a great idea, and I hope they will implement it statewide. I just returned from Hawaii, and I saw a lot of people not wearing masks, not social distancing, etc. BTW, that was mostly Tourists that I saw. I think that what’s happening is that COVID is spreading on the islands, and something has to be done to stop it before the hospitals and morgues are completely overwhelmed like they are in some of the low vax states like Florida. I haven’t seen the complete list yet, but I think that the vaccine passport should cover, quite simply, anywhere that more than a few people gather. So besides bars, restaurants, gyms, etc., it should include grocery stores, drug stores, Any retail establishment that serves the public, and any workplace as well.
You can recover from a bad business year or downturn in revenue, in fact many business’s are reinventing themselves to be better then they ever were and are well positioned for the future……you cannot recover from dying and the people that lose a loved one to Covid suffer a lot more then someone having a difficult business year….I for one for one am happy to see the people that are Covid or Vaccine deniers boycott Hawaii and the thoughtful less fingerpointing people support Hawaii.
Time will heal all though and the more people that get vaccinated the sooner that will happen.
A recent study out of Israel indicated that those who have had COVID and recovered, but did not get vaccinated, actually have a “stronger and longer lasting” immunity than those who have been fully vaccinated. And the mRNA vaccines lose 50% of their efficacy after 4-6 months. Based on this latest study, and confirming studies conducted by other agencies, it makes little sense to allow only those vaccinated a free pass. Also, Dr. Fauci recently said that tests on infected vaccinated (breakthrough cases) and unvaccinated individuals revealed an equal amount of virus in both sets. In other words, those vaccinated can carry and transmit the virus just as easily as those unvaccinated. Consequently, it makes sense to forget the inane vaccine passports entirely and just stick with antigen and molecular testing.
Actually they are discovering that the vaccine provides very long term protection against severe illness. npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/30/1032520934/immunity-to-covid-19-could-last-longer-than-youd-think
I wouldn’t be quoting NPR or any mainstream media that had a political bias either way.
They quote their sources, which is more than some guy with a YouTube video from his basement typically does. Read the article, then look at the studies themselves instead of just rejecting it all out of hand.
Your post would be a bit more accurate if you completed the results from the study:
“However, vaccines can add an extra boost to protection in people who recovered from COVID-19. Results showed that a single vaccine dose with natural immunity provided greater protection against reinfection than people with natural immunity alone.”
Other studies by the NIH, The British Society of Immunology and others concluded the following:
“It’s likely that for most people vaccination against COVID-19 will induce more effective and longer lasting immunity than that induced by natural infection with the virus. Even if you’ve had COVID-19, you’re recommended to get the vaccine because it will boost whatever immunity you have from natural infection.”
Please beware of posts where sources are not cited or study results are edited.
Hawaii is Bankrupt, their Unemployment Compensation is more the $500,000,000.00 upside down, hence Ige and other Governors (NY, NJ, Ct., Pa., Ill., Ca., NM) standing in line, any Common Denominators? “48 Hours”, so every other day, one goes for a Test so they can spend $ in Hawaii! We’ve postponed from February ’20, September ’20, May ’21 to now February ’22, we still have time for Sanity to take hold, but what will be left, we will see and decide at Christmas. The Moana has been our home away from home in Oahu since 1988 (36 Stays), with maybe the Hyatt another 8 times and Marriott 6, so we’ve done it, Hawaii is a special place, but not the only place. Hawaii needs to put something in their Infrastructure if they can’t support Hospital’s, Dr.’s and what of Nurses, and the 1,200 First Responders in Fire and Police suing Governor Ige.
We have 2 timeshares on Maui, which we continue to pay the high maintenance fees every January. My husband and I are not getting the shot, but have no problem with wearing the masks or doing the tests. So with all the regulations we may have to cancel our vacation again this year. The sad part of all of this is, we still have to pay and have absolutely no other options.. We have gone every year since 1986 and love the islands..
As long as there’s exceptions for unvaccinated, the policy is useless. Everyone needs to get vaccinated or stay home.
Have been going to Hawaii pretty much at least once a year for the past 20 years but with the vaccine passport, sadly my trips there will be over.
We’ll be on Oahu starting September 21st after 8 days on Kaua’i. Heading to Amazon now to buy a CDC card holder on a lanyard!
Aloha BOH!
Hi Ed.
Welcome back!
Aloha.
I can see a lot of people canceling their trips to the island with the new 48 hour test. A lot of people were worried about the 72 hour. I have cancelled my trip for nov 1 because of the unknown if the will close the island down. We come 3-4 times a year to go diving and always eat at mom and pop places we also try to use the locals anytime we have a chance. I worry about them even more with all this possible closure. Best of luck Hawaii
Mahalo for the memories
Hi Alan.
The 48 hours is for restaurants etc. Not travel, which is 72 hours.
Aloha.
So, 72 hours for travel, then on top of that within 48 hours of going to restaurants, bars, gyms, commercial boats (like Capt Andy’s), etc? Ridiculous.
Not speaking for Alan, but the problem for any unvaxxed visitor is you you be constantly taking tests your entire trip, not just the initial one before you leave.. that’s not practical for enjoying a week or two. Plus, what if you test positive. Now you are stuck. Food trucks and fast food lines will get even longer. Time will tell if this helps or hurts restaurants and other impacted businesses, like local gyms
This is why we are selling our timeshare on Kauai.We once Loved the Islands,but now they are becoming a Tyrannical State.No more aloha
The Delta Surge is peaking now and it will make it look like this mandate saved the day!
The mayor can walk abound like a super hero, and eventually win the next election touting his great accomplishments! he is a smart.
Infections come and go. Almost on predictable schedules.
UK surge foreshadowed the FL surge decline.. And just like clockwork it’s happening. The same will occur in Hawaii. And in the Fall NY/MI and other northern States will have the same end results.
If you extend Blangiardi’s order to gatherings of more than ten people (weddings, funerals, organizers of rave parties as just happened on North Shore, etc.)then you might be close to attacking the surest contributor of the Delta variant — the local population that refuse to be vaccinated. Mitch Roth on Hawaii Island has already id’ed the major source and ordered that parks and beaches on Hawaii Island will not allow tents, canopies, or pop-ups and restricts the size of gatherings to 10 people.
Though in a hyper-religious environment as is most of Hawaii, the order should include churches, but would likely never pass Constitutional muster. Living in rural Hawaii, I know many neighbors who will never be vaccinated and, sadly, Marshallese and other extended multi-family households who buy into the anti-vax hysteria, then take the virus home to spread.
I will gladly watch the closing of restaurants due to this insane policy as the consequence of poor leadership.
Hawaii is nuts.
I don’t agree with Ige’s muddled pronouncements, but if you want a nutty CV-19 policy, look no further than FL. That Gov. is now de-funding school districts that don’t follow his policy to let the virus spread through children, no less, denying private sector decisions about vaccinations, their employees and customers, then rushing in to support treatment drugs that have to be administered in the very beginning of symptoms to prove effective.
Makes perfect sense to me…
Vaccines to little to nothing to prevent infection.
Right. So, let’s just party down, unvaccinated, taxing an already overwhelmed medical system, now cancelling all elective surgeries while taxing the medical professionals such that many are quitting a life of service while we import a new batch of nurses, assistants, etc.
Tell you what. I’ll let the unvaxed continue with this farce that you just penned, if you’ll agree that all unvaccinated agree they will not ever agree to be hospitalized should they contract CV-19.
Then folks with cancer and heart disease and hospitals treating them won’t have to face the terrible choice of denying admission from lack of ICU.
Aloha Greg M. Although you may wish it to be true (for whatever fanatical reason), vaccines DO, IN FACT, work. Hence we have vaccines for small pox, measles, mumps, etc. Please refrain from commenting if you are going to post blatant falsehoods. It does NO ONE any good. Mahalo.
It actually doesn’t help with the spread of the virus. It did with the original strain but just as the flu does, covid is mutating, among vaccinated and unvaccinated and yes, vaccinated people are ending up in the hospital. The CDC is no longer tracking breakthrough infections so the numbers are not accurate. Medical freedom. Period.
No one is taking away your freedom to make decisions. What you seem to want is freedom from the consequences of your choices. Personally I’m tired of having the consequences of others choices forced on me. So I support vaccine passports. If you choose not to vaccinate then the consequences of that decision should be entirely on you by being separated from the rest of civil society. The best way to do that is to effectively quarantine you with vaccine passports for any gathering of more that 10 people. That would include everything including weddings, family reunions, restaurants, bars, any retail establishments, etc.
Covid Vaccine is NOT the same as the tried and true vaccines for MMR, Polio, Hep B, Dtap, etc. If you think they are, you will sadly be disappointed. So sad what is happening in Hawaii. As another commentator mentioned, “thanks for the memories.” Doesn’t look like this family will be returning any time remotely soon.
Several people are making this point. If you doubt the efficacy of mRNA technology or don’t trust it, then you and all of the others who miss the point have an alternative. The J&J approach uses the same dead virus as in many other vaccines, just like the technology applied to MMR, Polio, HepB&C, etc.
Is there any wonder disinformation rules the day when people can’t even face the simple fact that there is an alternative to mRNA?
Thank You, Mary
obviously you and 55 others are greatly misinformed. These vaccines are not the same as the other vaccines and are new mRNA tech and have embryo stem cells as part of its base.
The vaccine is there to limit potential viral load but it only stops the severity of the sickness not the spread. And CDC has failed to follow through on proper tracing so we don’t have a accurate scaled data set to analyze, more like hypothesis and conclusions.
Most people don’t even understand the core of science.
Stay up to date on the fasts as they are constantly being updated as more data is acquired. Also keep an open mind as what we know today could be far from the truth in 3-6 months just like that has been happened over the last 18 months.
I decided it would be irresponsible to travel under such conditions. Seems things will get worse so why travel?
A lot of my friends have gotten sick even though vaccinated and they are far too reckless not caring about spreading it. Quite a few of my friends are worried as they thought this wasn’t supposed to happen and are not traveling/partying anymore.
I will stay home and be sensible.
I see no way to quail teh desire of people doing what they want when they want. You can’t stop em all without crippling the economy and community.
lose-lose situation 🙁
Greg, Not only do they work, they actually work better (at least the mRNA ones) than had been previously thought. At least in terms of preventing serious illness and death. Take a look at this article about the long-term effectiveness of the vaccine. npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/30/1032520934/immunity-to-covid-19-could-last-longer-than-youd-think It turns out that while the short term effectiveness of prevention is exactly that, short (6-8 months), at the same time your body is building additions weapons that prevent serious illness. That addresses EXACTLY the issue that Hawaii is concerned about, i.e., the hospitals and morgues filling up, like in Florida right now.
Truth.
Unless you can show us your credentials as a PhD or MD in immunology and the research to back up your claims, please STOP with the ridiculous claims. It’s not true, and people such as you that perpetuate disinformation on the internet as a main reason that more people are not vaxxed. Just stop, Greg M. Just Stop.